Here’s the community chat-space for June. I’m going to make this one open to all subscribers, just to see if that’s a good idea (too many voices? just enough?) Talk about whatever moves you. I’ll check in and respond to any questions thrown my way.
Thoughts about money and uncertainty while riding home on my scooter in Indonesia:
Rides on my faithful Honda moped have become a little refuge for self-reflection and rumination since being in Indo. It’s a bit like the private moment with your thoughts you get while sitting on the toilet, just in motion.
I’ve found it difficult not to be overstimulated since coming here. I quit my job, sold all my shit and jumped on a plane with my girlfriend and only a faint idea of what might happen henceforth (Chris and Tangentially Speaking made me do it). Now every aspect of my life is perpetually up in the air. New, insane, uncertain. A quiet moment to consider how I feel in the midst of this is always welcome, and it always comes while I’m on the scooter.
Today I was riding home from BJJ training (there’s a dingy little gym in town, used to be a brothel, but we have a sick crew now), and I was mulling over the dreaded topic of money. In the change rooms I’d had a conversation with my mate, a good-looking Belarusian guy who is a proper digital nomad. He has his own e-commerce business and I assume is doing well from it. But me? Well I walked away from decent money in Australia and now make a couple of bucks from writing. I am always taken for a proper digital nomad but really I’m just some guy with only a dim idea of what dropshipping is.
We talked about the desire so many Westerners in Asia have to escape the system - houses, insurance, bills, some safe managerial job that you are somehow clinging to for dear life. My mate says we all think we can walk away from the system but it will always follow us. We have to be capitalists, maybe marginally freeing ourselves from it but largely working within the system. I always kind of quietly agreed with that sentiment. And I felt a bit insecure knowing he’s running a stable business and planning for the future, while I am masquerading as someone like him but basically winging it.
You know what struck me as I rode home though? I’m not panicking. I think even the lines in my face that developed prematurely in my 20’s are fading. I feel a shit ton more relaxed, more confident, more sure of myself being uncertain every day and winging it in Asia than I did in the apparent safety of my ‘good’ job and shiny shoes. The risk of dying miserable on the way to a secure job far outweighs any of the risks out here. Maybe my feeling is blissful ignorance and soon my life will crash and burn. Or maybe it’s that thing bigger than both money and uncertainty - personal authenticity.
Thanks for the open thread Chris and keen to hear if anyone has some thoughts around this. Cheers and well wishes to all
You walked away for a reason. Just ride this wave until you feel like riding a new one. The rat race will always be there if feel the urge to dive back in.
Hey y'all, curious to know what's a random great song that you have come across recently? One that you suspect no one in your life knows about, but should. I'll start things off: "Insan Insan" by Fazil Say (youtube below). I believe it is Turkish and religious/spiritually themed. I don't speak the language and don't consider myself particularly religious/spiritual, but wow does it pack a punch! Best listened to after sundown, sitting in a chair or lying in bed, pensively contemplating your existence:
People who are able to travel long-term, how do you take care of ageing parents? I feel like I am getting to a point where I can travel but my parents need me for so much I feel like I can't just do this long-term.
Hey Chris, this is something that's been on my mind recently and has been sort of a thing that has made me enjoy the pod in general less.
I really don't mean this as an attack at all, but think it's a valid conversation that the TS community rarely glances over.
The simplest way I can put it is - What makes the eco-village model different than the horde wealth and live in a bunker model.
Now my feelings go far beyond this specific example but this is a good way to illustrate it for me. It just seems like a lot of the remove yourself from society thinking is pretty similar to the thinking that most in the community would agree is very bad that a stereotypically shitty rich person would have, "I'll focus on taking care of myself my friends and my family" just dressed up in what is pretty similar to green washing.
I get the criticisms of modern life, but also I feel a lot of times the circumstances of us living under an incredibly exploitative kleptocracy is so often ignored. Permaculture is a technology just like all technology we have today. It seems pretty clear to me that what drives or technology affecting are lives in such a negative way is the incentives of our economy and systems.
How does running away and starting a small community help anyone but yourself and those lucky enough to be included in your community.
Also do you believe that further down the line if this kind of movement grew substantially that the government would not get involved in these planned communities? They sort of tried this kinda thing back in the hippy days and the US gov directly interfered and undermined these kind of communities.
To be able to build these communities u need to buy land which requires a level of wealth most people will never have, even if pooling from a large group of friends that vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck so they won't have that ability. So a part of me feels that this is people who have directly benefited from the exploitation of others who are worse off than them and are just leaving the mess behind and saying that's those people's problems. To me this is very similar to any wealthy person who just accepts they will make money by exploiting others and then isolates themselves from those who are exploited, like white flight in the mid 20th century, or nimby policies.
It sort of reminds me of my feelings on the current psychedelic movement where it seems like just ways to make rich people more comfortable with their place in society. And I get that this is accessible to many people who aren't necessarily ultra wealthy, but the vast vast majority of people will spend their whole lives working hard for nothing and will never have any ability to build up savings.
For example we have a wave of fascist legislation going through all over the country, leaving to form an eco community will shield you and those close to you from that mostly however there's an acceptance there that you have no power to help others who will be terribly affected by these and many other issues, which is not true. Whole I don't have much faith in our gov the idea that it is completely out of our hands is a load of crap.
And I just wanna end off by saying it's all love here, I do get where you are coming from and at the end of the day there's no use suffering just bc others do, at the same time there are a lot of things we can do to make the society we have better.
Your message as a whole has helped me a lot, your a big part of me learning to not hate myself, helping me realize I wasn't the problem like I used to think and that instead these fucked up conditions we live in are.
Also I don't know if it is just me, but from my perspective it seems like you have been recently going more in a direction I don't like and less in the loving compassionate angle that really attracted me towards your pod. Although this could very well be more related to changes in myself that I'm projecting onto u.
I wonder if you think having a garden is a waste of time because it won't feed the world? Land in Crestone, where I live these days, is among the cheapest in the US. When we came here a few years ago, we bought 2.6 acres with trees and utilities for $26,000. That's not more money than most people could ever put together, especially if they're pooling with friends.
I think we need to do whatever we can do and help whomever we can help. The fact that we're probably not changing the course of history shouldn't stop us from making small-scale improvements to our lives and the lives of people we love. If you 're gonna get hung up on the fact that whatever we do as individuals or small groups won't save people in Bangladesh from flooding or people in Sudan from drought, you'll never do anything other than throwing shade at people who are trying, which may scratch some itch of yours, but isn't contributing to anything positive.
Hi everyone, I hope spring has been treating you well! I’m looking to connect with others who live in intentional communities and are familiar with the process of joining one. I’ve found some online resources (r/intentionalcommunities, for one) but have mostly found a lot of people in the same position as myself. I’m strongly considering moving off the East Coast to find my place and people. The popular IC model in New England looks like private homeownership on individual lots. The fractious, isolated lifestyle out here is becoming untenable for me. I want to contribute to a community of people who share my values and find radical solutions to challenges of contemporary life. I’m a single parent of a four-year old for whom I hope to foster a true sense of purpose, meaning, and place. The learning curve of parenthood for me has been staying put, but even that is difficult here on Cape Cod, as rental leases tend to lapse at max 6 months to make room for short term vacation rentals. I’m a fast learner, hard worker, and exceptionally-dedicated person. What I lack is a shared sense of purpose in a larger community, and I find that void hard to navigate. If anyone has any guidance or even a contact to share, I’m all ears - very grateful ears!
This is an awesome lead! Thank you so much, Justin! So far, I’ve seen no communities in my region that publicize a similar rental option. This looks like a great place to learn about and participate in a community-based model as a newcomer. I’m going to read through the rest of their website, watch some of the videos, and reach out to express my interest. I so appreciate the thought!
You're welcome! That's exciting! Please let me know what you think of the place. I've never been but I took have been looking for community and Earthaven has come up a few times!
Just joined the Telegram you linked above in the thread. I’ll catch up on the messages to orient myself a bit. I’ll definitely pass on anything helpful I encounter!
It's tough to find here in the "west" due to so many reasons.... several of which you mentioned. I have traveled to all 50 states and through most of Canada and what you seek is few and far between. It's much easier to find in some more traditional areas of Europe and, of course, in Asia. If I had to recommend one place in the USA, it would be the area directly west of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in Southern CO and Northern NM. There are some well-establish communities in the area that are trying their best to buck the consumer-culture BS theme of idiocracy USA. Learn permaculture, sustainable building, a holistic practice.... and then contribute. That is how you join. Best of luck!
The San Luis Valley is indeed a bastion of bucking the status quo but be forewarned, it is a harsh reality. I have 40 acres on the valley floor and it's not easy to work with the extreme elements. I am doing my best to develop my place as a refuge for healing (I am an acupuncture and functional medicine physician) Feel free to reach out I would be happy to chat and see if I can be of any service in your quest.
Thank you, Stirling, that’s very helpful advice. And confirmation of my suspicions of scarcity! I’m somewhat familiar with some urban communes around here, but they’re removed from rurality by definition and tend to be more like exclusive places for an alternative-minded upper class, if that makes sense. It takes a lot for places like this to survive, especially in New England, so those that have aren’t necessarily very replicable or accessible. Communality is expressly discouraged by US culture, economics, and policy - seemingly doubly-so for families. To want to shape one’s life along these principles is regarded with suspicion, regardless of how bleak the norm looks in practice. Thanks again, I appreciate your time!
Hi Chris. Just wanted to say thanks for being a big inspiration and source of knowledge. You are one of the people who inspired me to start my own podcast, which, without exaggeration, has changed my life!
Here's a question for you and the community: Have you ever been in a city that you felt allowed you to live in tune with your human nature? Or is urban living by definition contrary to our evolution?
I'm an urban planner/designer and this is a fundamental question for me.
I’m at an interesting crossroads (many options intersection) in my life where I find myself more freed up than ever before. And when I say freed up I would say emotionally freed up and loosened. The last two years I’ve felt Incredibly weighed down by something that one might call grief. As I start to feel this lift and have tons of observations about the impacts it’s had on my life and relationships I am finding myself unsure of where to go next in this journey. What a fun opportunity to be a bit lost. The ideas I see myself coming to are: buy a house? Get a PhD? Continue to travel? Buy property and start that retreat center I’ve been creating in my mind? Shift my career? Invest further in this career? Maybe all these questions can remain open and I can see if any or all get clarified. I’m thinking writing this out is an experiment in itself. Just to see what came to mind and what I even thought of as options.
Just basing my reply on what I have heard and read.... of those who came to the end of their lives and stated their regrets or what they wished they had done more of. That being: help / support others, and travel. No one ever said they'd wished they had worked more. Even all of the "happiness" books pretty much say those same things. Best of luck in reaching come clarity!
It's strange that we spend so much time thinking about what we would do if we only had the time, money, freedom, or ability and yet when we finally obtain what's required the mind goes blank. This is much lower stakes then your situation but during the week I often make a mental list of all the personal projects I want to attack when I have free time during the weekend. When the weekend arrives I can't recall any of it and I fumble around until I do. I think by writing it down you are creating something to refer back to. It's a good mindset to see moments of uncertainty as opportunities of freedom! I hope you path becomes clearer with time. And if you still find yourself unsure just do what Gandalf says, always follow your nose.
Hi everyone! I've been working on a project to build community, inspired by Chris and what I've learned from his writings about Fiercely Egalitarian Tribal Societies. It's been an ever changing process but this is the current state of the project: Helping to Bring Together People to Form Co-Owned Ecovillages! If you're interested in learning more, here's out Telegram Group, and FB Group:
Hey Chris, I'm just down the road in Mosca and have a bunch of free time on my hands and some skills to help with your Crestone project feel free to reach out if you need an extra set of hands, happy to help.
Hey Chris - I have (a long-winded) question I’d love your opinion on...
I’m new to Substack, I joined because 1) I’m writing a non-fiction book about skateboarding and I wanted to “grow my audience” as they say, so I could promote my book. 2) I write about a bunch of other things (that aren’t about skateboarding) and I just wanted to share my writing.
And I hear all this advice on substack that “you need a niche if you want to grow an audience”, some people have even suggested I should just write about skateboarding and not share my other pieces.... but I find that limiting and not honest to my writing or who I am.
So my question to you is - given what I have just explained - what would you do in my situation?
Would you stick to the niche of only writing about skateboarding?
Or would you write about whatever you want?
Or would you maybe do a third thing like make two substacks, one for skating and one for other stuff?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
P.S - I realise this is a long question and you have limited time so I understand if you can’t answer.
Either way I appreciate you and all that you do - thank you.
Hey Michael. I'd probably do two. I think the advice about having a niche is accurate for most people. You're looking for an audience, and it's hard to find an audience that's interested in everything and is going to choose you over all the other general-interest writers/podcasters out there. The competition is just too much. But how many people are there writing about skateboarding? Far fewer, so it's easier to find them (and for them to find you). Then you can coax some of them over to your more general Substack.
Anybody here ever gone back for a second bachelor's degree in a totally different field? I'm pursuing jobs with university maintenance departments, which offer 100 percent tuition remission so I could do it without needing to go into more debt. The goal would be to pursue masters coursework after. But that would of course mean dedicating the majority of my non-working hours to study and schoolwork for years. It gets me thinking about a concept brought up here a lot, the two currencies: money and time. Money is usually renewable, time isn't.
Hypothetical question for Chris and anybody else: if money were not a consideration - both tuition and potential future salary - is it worth pursing higher education just for the love of learning, the pursuit of knowledge itself?
I haven't earned a second bachelors but to this point I have spent an inordinate amount of time studying/learning/researching in the four years since I obtained my bachelors. Much of it is personal research and some more formal (a graduate certificate in evolutionary biology). Some would probably think I am crazy for spending so much time researching and learning in the hours after I get home from the day job. But when you are learning about a subject that you are passionate about, for me it's human origins, it's not time lost. It's self fulfillment. I think if you are considering getting a bachelors in a subject that you are truly passionate about, don't let doubts keep you from jumping in. But, if you are doing it solely for the credentials that is going to be tough to sustain. Just my two cents.
Hi Thomas, I got my Bachelor of Science in Music Theory (after dropping out of Pre-med) and then got another Bachelor of Music in Composition at another school because it had a recording studio and I wanted to learn that skill as well as be surrounded by musicians. It also served as detox for a pretty serious cocaine habit but that's another story. After moving to Santa Barbara, CA with a reggae band I got involved in the nuclear disarmament movement and took political science classes at the local city college. One a semester for several years. For me, academia offers a structure and environment that facilitates learning. If that works for you too why not take advantage of the resource if it is free to you? I wouldn't get caught up in the degree though. That is only for careerists.
Thomas, I have some thoughts on this. I am currently in a masters of architecture program, at the age of 36. I started my environmental science degree at age 24. Before that I did trades and oil &gas. Both times I went to school, it marked a change in direction and to a extent a new phase in my life, so it is good for that. I will say the most useful down to earth part of it was the 2 years of environmental science at community college. Those instructors know their shit and the skills you learn you can use. In general I feel that higher education is poorly done and I wish it was done differently. Currently the higher you go it seems the less practical it gets. Perhaps you like that stuff but I have found it less useful overall.
Also for every interesting class you can take on the way to a degree, you gotta take one or two bullshit required classes, which suck time and energy and give nothing back.
I would say the only reason to get a degree is so you can get the job that requires you to have a degree and/or sign documents, In my case it is environmental certificates and building plans. If you don’t want or need to do something like that, forget about the degree and take classes that interest you and avoid the filler. Become a renaissance man rather than some guy with a few degrees
Also, I have chatted with the maintenance folks in my university and they have access to free classes as well and one guy who had been working there for many years said he didn’t know of anyone who completed a degree that way which leads me to believe it is pretty difficult to make it work.
I've been thinking a lot about this and, like Andrew Ramos also suggested, I think this would be my approach at least in the beginning. Even if getting the degree wasn't a requirement for some sort of career I might pursue, I had this thought that it's at least a requirement to be taken seriously in any given field. The thing is, I don't have some clearly defined end goal of a career in mind. I kind of could not give a shit about having a career at all.
I studied english literature in college, but throughout my late 20s discovered I am fascinated by biology. If I took this job I could take advantage of broad course offerings in bio, chemistry, physics, etc. - picking and choosing one or two at a time - maybe coming up with a better idea of what specifically I like and am good at.
To me, it seems clear that academia and science professions steer people toward an ever-narrowing specialization. My mind doesn't work like that. I've tried for years to find 'my thing' - the hobby, skill, field of study, whatever - that finally felt like "this is the one, this is what I can dive deep down into and master". Nothing has felt that way. I get really into something for a while, go as deep as I want, and then move on to something else I've always been interested in. I'm finally comfortable knowing that I am a generalist and fascinated by the intersections, overlaps, and borderlands between various spheres of knowledge (which is maybe why ecology or biospherics as a whole are so appealing to me within the broad space of biology.) If I knew I had a dozen lives to live maybe I'd specialize, but as it stands, I don't.
I feel like I have nothing to lose taking a smattering of courses and if it doesn't lead me anywhere, I'll know one more avenue that no longer appeals to me as some sort of future path while still retaining the good things I learned. In the meantime, I'll have a paycheck and health insurance.
The answer to that question, it seems to me, is all about what you'd choose to study and why. Are you utterly fascinated by geology and just can't get enough knowledge about rocks and mountains? Are you going to study art history because a good painting can bring you to tears? In other words, will the time be well-spent? Personally, I get so turned on by learning/understanding/discussing that I can easily imagine doing something like this, but it would very much depend on the subject matter.
As I read over the comments, the words “sex” and “sexuality” jump out at me…and remind me that it’s appropriate to share my message about sex in the hopes of sparking a discussion…and potentially some healing.
I’ve spent the past decade writing 5 books (fiction and nonfiction) to explore the mystery we call “sex.”
My fantasy series, THE SECRET SEX LIFE OF ANGELS, is an epic, erotic, tantric quest of one man’s initiation into the ancient “sexual mysteries,” My nonfiction book, OUR SECRET SEX LIFE: The Key to Humanity’s Destiny reveals some of the secrets we all carry between our legs and the hidden connections between sex, society, and survival. The book’s premise is that sex is much more than we realize. More than procreation or pleasure, sex is fundamental to our Humanity in ways we’ve forgotten and consequential in ways we can’t imagine.
After millennia of patriarchal and religious “mind-fuck” we’re ignorant of the fundamental and consequential importance of this defining aspect of our humanity.
How we conceive of, feel about, and engage in sex shapes relations between men and women, dictates the dynamics of family, and ultimately influences the values and structures of society. Consider sex the “source code” for society.
Since our SEX OS is so fundamental and consequential, the “story” we tell ourselves about sex will determine the kind of society we create, the health of that society, and possibly even the fate of that society.
But our SEX OS has been been hacked! And the consequences are catastrophic!
Could our hacked SEX OS and the collective trauma of shame we’ve all inherited about this defining aspect of our humanity be at the root of our self-inflicted, existential crises? Can a specie ashamed of the way it creates new life survive? Are we fucking up the world because our fucking is fucked up?!
The Hindu Vedas, India’s millennia-old holy texts, understood the fundamental importance of sex and warned that a society which doesn’t view the male and female genitals as symbols of divine principles and revere them as sacred instruments is doomed.
I apologize for the rant but I’m passionate about this. At 76 my impending mortality fills me with an urgency about getting this message into the world to inspire a cultural conversation and sexual healing.
I’m taking this opportunity to engage the Tangentially Speaking community and Chris in a discussion. Not just for better sex lives, but for society’s health and, ultimately, civilization’s survival.
Here’s a link to a recent article (5 minute read) I write that explains what I'm talking about::
Humans are so smart that I'm continuously dumbfounded by the society/culture that we have created. Why do most people work at jobs they don't like, why do we create so many toxins in our environment, why is there so much suffering in the world(wars, starvation, etc). I feel like if an alien race were to observe us they might think they are so smart how is this the best system/way of life they have come up with? Not sure what to do with this it's just frustrating that's all. 😏
I share your frustration. If you have not read Ernst Becker's "Denial of Death" I highly recommend it. For me it is the single best explanation for the mass neurosis that Western Civilization suffers. I've heard Dr. Ryan mention it a couple times in his podcasts but not sure why he doesn't reference it more often as it seems highly relevant to the whole Civilized to Death thread. The insight that this book provides doesn't turn our zoo in to a paradise but it does blunt the frustration. When you ask yourself "Why are they doing that?" you realize they are in denial of their "creatureliness"(as Becker phrases it) and you can forgive the inanity.
The thing is, when we are born we aren't starting from ground zero. We are born into a world that has been going down a certain path for a very long time. The environment we are born into ironically produces paths that result in many of the problems you listed. In a round-about-way Robert Sapolsky's book Behave is a great (but long) read that demonstrates how much we are influenced by our environment. Even by events that happened hundreds, thousands, or millions of years before we were born.
Let it go baby! What's the point of being frustrated about something you can do nothing about.
Humanity is doing great considering we're all just a seething mass of neurotic impulses trying to interact with each other.
Yes the world is a fucking mess!
But it's also beautiful and incredible and people create amazing shit.
How I see the world depends on my perspective.
I spend my life between NZ and Thailand and I see beauty everywhere!! Even in the dirt and grime.
I was just thinking about that before actually. I'm in Pattaya right now, sitting on my deck look out over this crazy city to the sea. and the contrast of beauty and 'ugly' is huge. But I love it all.
Not sure how I'd feel if I lived in the US!!! Once upon a time everyone wanted to go there. Not any longer!! Ugh!
I hear the new Kennedy talk and it seems he wants to make it what I remember. Has he got a chance. Would love to think so but he's taking in the corporations! Hmmm...
Anyway I reckon the world just reflects back our own inner workings!
Have you got a touch of 'save the world syndrome'?
Almost every person who goes in to the helping professions, psychology etc, began by wanting to save the world.
And you're doing a great job providing guidence to people around their possibilities in life. You help people get curious and open their minds.
People often don't get that from their parents. Most parents want their kids to be safe, get a good job, have a family! Not go off to distant lands and roam the world getting into all kinds of trouble.
That's certainly a dilemma I've faced as a parent.
Im a free spirit, done very little formal work, lived a very different life to most.
But when it comes to my son I wanted him to do the regular thing. Maybe do the big OE and then settle down and have a family.
But I also want him to go off and do what I did!
Hes 37 now, still hasn't done either!! Lol!!
But he's still kinda living life on his own terms.
And he knows no matter what he does I support him.
Blah blah!
Fuck that was long!
Just wanna say I've been listening to you for about a decade or so. You really piss me off at times but I love you!
First episode I heard was you talking to that gay porn, star/evolutionary biologist dude up in the hills in San Fran! Connor Habib???
Very intimate convo. You said you weren't gay but he kind of made you wish you were! Lol!! Or something like that.
One of the first podcasts I ever listened to! Blew my mind and been listening ever since!!
Thanks for your reply. I wouldn't say I'm that frustrated there's a lot of beauty in the world too and sometimes I even think how things work so well like getting food to grocery stores, planes coming and going etc. What is it you do that allows you to live between new Zealand and Thailand? Sounds ideal. Also not sure if you thought I was Chris Ryan as you were addressing him in your response. In any event thanks for your input.
I've been undergoing the painful process of coming to terms with the fact that I'm in a relationship that isn't going to work. Returning to the podcast has been a tremendous help in cutting through the fear and sadness swirling through my mind to focus in on my authentic voice saying "It's time".
I'm young and dumb, so I thought I could prepare myself for this, but you can't. It feels like my future has been blown apart, but this podcast and the people around it have helped me realize that the world and my possible paths aren't as small and constrained as I thought they were. I can sometimes mistake an open sky for a dead-end wall.
Im grateful for what I've learned here. Sending love to anyone else going through their own tiny obliteration. Fucking dramatic, but man it really feels like that!
Listen to your knowing. I was in the same space and when I saw there was no future, it was impossible to unsee. And the honesty was freeing. Even when the truth isn’t hopeful, the telling of it is.
I love these words. That there's hope and freedom in radical honesty, not just pain and loss, which is how it can feel in times like this. Listen to my knowing. Fuck yea. Easier said than done, for sure. Thank you.
Thank you for the advice, its just that - who knew? - grieving sucks! It's one of those things I consciously understood, but then somehow am shocked by how much the process actually still hurts in practice. I also love your use of the word "changes" instead of "ends" btw.
Thanks Chris. I've been looking more into the entire concept and existence of our authentic voice and it's been enlightening, so I appreciate the "introduction" to that.
Hi Chris, do you feel like your PhD was worth it? I'm in my 50s and feeling like earning it would be a credibility piece for me (i.e., the letters) but not sure it's worth the $ and time.
Hey Chris (and TS family) just chiming in here to say you NEED to check out an artist called Ren. All his stuff is great, but I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on his video “Hi Ren”.
Hi Ren reminded me of young Eminem that is extremely gifted with the guitar and lyrically. His struggle in the song I believe resonates with a lot of people these days, a place of being a sense of fitting in and finding purpose is heavy in a lot of souls, especially the younger generations. I turned 50 this year and have 31 year old son, life is not easy or is it hard, it is exactly what we make it.
I read Civilized to Death when it first came out. That book is solid gold -- it spoke to me in so many ways. I am at home in a deep forest or when living out of a bag, as I often do. I despise my smartphone and have been known to break them out of frustration. I was in the military from 18-38 and got out 10 years ago last month. Traveled the world for a while (30+ countries) and worked as a fire lookout for the last four summers because it gets me away from civilization - but, not enough! I am very healthy for a middle-aged man.... tall, good looking, and can outrun most dudes half my age. I commonly get hit on by vapid women a decade or more younger than me. Lately, I'm stuck in a rut - probably a "mid-life crisis" but, it just feels different.... like I'm spinning my wheels and no one is around to help push this car out of the mud. I need more purpose and meaning in my life. I need to meet others who share in my disgust of what is happening with humanity, the climate, society.... and do something about it! I feel a strong desire to "tribalize" with others like me except they are usually too far down the path of destruction. I know it is difficult for me because I was good at being a Soldier for two decades and now... nothing feels like it measures up. Being useful would be great! I would also like to meet someone but when I go out and interact with the public or attempt to date (god forbid) it seems to be a disaster and I retreat back to my cave. Why does it seem people are satisfied just staring at a screen or thinking about how they can get rich (and get over). I feel like I am right and they are wrong but I don't want to end up being "that guy" who thinks he's got it all figured out, because, damn it, I surely don't! I just don't get how people can live this way.... in the rat race, phone in face, eating shit food and waiting to die. It all seems pointless and perfectly acceptable to most. I don't fear death.... I fear not living life to the fullest!
Brother you are not alone, I just turned 50 in April and have many of the same thoughts and challenges that you laid out. It's a shitty rut to be in and harder still when you know you have more to give/contribute. Hang in there and feel free to reach out if you need someone to listen. 970-331-1136 (I know it's a dastardly phone but best I can do 😁)
I appreciate your reply. I know there are many other warriors and wanderers out there who, like me, are feeling this emptiness and wanting badly to just be useful.... and necessary. Like boats with engine trouble - we must find a way to get underway again, headed in the right direction. I know that change ultimately comes from within.... gotta want it and then do it! But, it's those external voices - the friends, loved ones, community, that create the positive environment that enables our transformation. That is the thing we lack more than ever now in this strange situation we call a society -- community. So, thanks for reaching out.... and thank you to Chris and all those who are creating / participating in these much-needed "communal spaces" in these interesting times!
Thank you for opening this space Chris! I should have looked at this more when I was paying for it. The book Glimmer by Kimberly Shannon Murphy is currently moving me. I wish I read it as a teen, and I wish more people understood sexual abuse and flashbacks. I would love to hear you interview her.
Your willingness to vulnerably discuss human sexuality has been so freeing for me. This book has complimented the courage you seeded in me to really explore why we live the way we do.
Also, it leaves me with way too many dark questions around how we became such a dysfunctional species.
One of the last pieces of media that really touched me re: sex abuse was listening to Tim Ferriss open up about his experiences on his podcast ("My Healing Journey After Childhood Abuse"--not sure of the ep.#). I don't always dig the vibe of his podcast, although I respect it and the type of work he does regardless. Anyway, that episode in particular I regard as one of the best interviews he's ever given. In it he embraces vulnerability in a way that, in my opinion, gives his stage presence and speaking voice a stronger (and more pleasant) ring of truth and authenticity than any other time I've heard him talk. Really good.
100%! That podcast was so good! His vulnerability was incredible. I think it's sometimes harder for men to open up about sexual abuse, especially a public figure like Tim.
Wow. Im just at the beginning but he offers a whole resource list, and its a treasure. I cant thank you enough for your recommendation, it is exactly what I have been searching for.
Hey Chris - You seem like a guy that lives life with no regrets. But maybe I'm wrong. Is there anything you regret? What is regret about anyway? Are there any positives to regret? I don't know why I'm asking these questions, they just popped in my head. Curious what people think.
I don't regret mistakes or roads that turned out to be dead-ends. The only things I regret are when I hurt people unnecessarily (at least, it looks unnecessary from here) and relatedly, when I delayed doing something I knew needed to be done: a difficult conversation, leave an unhappy relationship or job, that kind of thing. But of course, we're all doing the best we can, so I guess I delayed because I couldn't do otherwise, but still, I wish I'd jumped sooner.
Talking about delaying the inevitable... Have you bought a guitar yet? What kind? What's the first song you want to learn/have learned? Where are you at in your music journey. Would be nice to get personal lessons with Rick Beato. I'm genuinely so interested in hearing all about it. Please take 5-10 minutes of a (B)ROMA to give us updates. You talking about learning from scratch as an adult could convince other people, who might be otherwise discouraged to start learning something new, to pick up an instrument themselves.
Asking as someone who waited until he got his hands on a free guitar at 23, and only regretted not buying one (or asking for one for Christmas) as a kid.
Beato considers his session master pal Tim Pierce a better and more versatile player so you may want to search out his lessons. Rick’s Les Paul, Jr. looks pretty sweet, but a bit dear. Best
We are the most advanced creatures on the earth. Intelligent apes that can do anything. Yet, weve given dogs easier lives than us. We work 12 hour shifts and buy large homes so dogs can have bigger spaces than ourselves. Today I worked and sweated 8 hours. I come home… my dog has moved from the couch to the floor. Why are coyotes living in luxury while monkeys do all the work? Surely monkeys could have thought of a better system then to let dogs have everyday off and we have 2 day vacation a year. This is like if lions were working an assembly line (assembly lions) while zebras got to hang out all day in the sun. Whats up with this? Love u Chris. ❤️
I had the same thought this week as I went to plant tomatos and the dog was on my bed, not even interested in joining me because of the heat. So nice to realize im not the only one looking at dogs and thinkng this.
In this modern world, I often find myself thinking, "This isn't natural. This isn't how we're meant to live". My attempts to soothe that are walking around trees, being around other people, playing music. Or drinking to cope/numb. How do you deal?
Same. I cope those ways too, except cannabis. I am listening to the rain now too. I want to start meditating/breathwork more regularly. Just trying to find regulating activities can be hard for me, but long hiking makes my whole body/mind feel reset. Journaling helps me move past hard emotions/thoughts, might compliment the music playing! A creative outlet (drawing, painting) has been a huge help for me.
For me, like you, nature is a big help. Just listening to the rain, as I am now, noticing the movement of clouds, the smells of the air, feeling dirt in my hands. Literally grounding. Living in a tiny town helps.
Just chiming in to watch the experiment unfold. I haven't been following the TS arc (or any others really) for awhile now, just due to being preoccupied with day to day stuff. I'm a woman near 40 living on the PNW coastline farming/gardening and I don't have a political orientation outside of "where does your food come from". I'm interested to see what's going on in this particular niche these days. Hope everyone's well.
It took me a long time to get here. I used to have more of a "save everyone and everything" type of mindset (ie codependence writ large). That wasted so much energy that I barely ever got past the thinking stage of any particular concept or pursuit.
Lots of avenues for that conversation, but one tidbit that's springing to mind for me is a lyrical excerpt from a contemporary country song--"You ever seen a man whose kids ain't ate for seventeen days and counting?"
This thought about codependency got me thinking. I can see how humans fuse with political movements as a means to fill in the gaps of their own lack of self and this is helping me sort through something I’ve been seeing.
That would be a Mr Corb Lund lyric I believe! His music will get you thinking! He also basically single handedly saved a bunch of alberta from becoming a coal mine 4 years ago too so that was cool
Thoughts about money and uncertainty while riding home on my scooter in Indonesia:
Rides on my faithful Honda moped have become a little refuge for self-reflection and rumination since being in Indo. It’s a bit like the private moment with your thoughts you get while sitting on the toilet, just in motion.
I’ve found it difficult not to be overstimulated since coming here. I quit my job, sold all my shit and jumped on a plane with my girlfriend and only a faint idea of what might happen henceforth (Chris and Tangentially Speaking made me do it). Now every aspect of my life is perpetually up in the air. New, insane, uncertain. A quiet moment to consider how I feel in the midst of this is always welcome, and it always comes while I’m on the scooter.
Today I was riding home from BJJ training (there’s a dingy little gym in town, used to be a brothel, but we have a sick crew now), and I was mulling over the dreaded topic of money. In the change rooms I’d had a conversation with my mate, a good-looking Belarusian guy who is a proper digital nomad. He has his own e-commerce business and I assume is doing well from it. But me? Well I walked away from decent money in Australia and now make a couple of bucks from writing. I am always taken for a proper digital nomad but really I’m just some guy with only a dim idea of what dropshipping is.
We talked about the desire so many Westerners in Asia have to escape the system - houses, insurance, bills, some safe managerial job that you are somehow clinging to for dear life. My mate says we all think we can walk away from the system but it will always follow us. We have to be capitalists, maybe marginally freeing ourselves from it but largely working within the system. I always kind of quietly agreed with that sentiment. And I felt a bit insecure knowing he’s running a stable business and planning for the future, while I am masquerading as someone like him but basically winging it.
You know what struck me as I rode home though? I’m not panicking. I think even the lines in my face that developed prematurely in my 20’s are fading. I feel a shit ton more relaxed, more confident, more sure of myself being uncertain every day and winging it in Asia than I did in the apparent safety of my ‘good’ job and shiny shoes. The risk of dying miserable on the way to a secure job far outweighs any of the risks out here. Maybe my feeling is blissful ignorance and soon my life will crash and burn. Or maybe it’s that thing bigger than both money and uncertainty - personal authenticity.
Thanks for the open thread Chris and keen to hear if anyone has some thoughts around this. Cheers and well wishes to all
You walked away for a reason. Just ride this wave until you feel like riding a new one. The rat race will always be there if feel the urge to dive back in.
Friends,
I have been following Steven Donziger’s saga ever since his appearance on Tangentially Speaking and he is still fighting the good fight. I just signed a petition for the UN to sanction the US for the unlawful detention and removal of his passport preventing him from traveling internationally. https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/add-your-name-to-our-new-petition-to-the-united-nations-seeking-a-legal-ruling-that-the-biden-administration-restore-stevens-full-freedom-including-his-right-to-international-travel?source=direct_link&
Hey y'all, curious to know what's a random great song that you have come across recently? One that you suspect no one in your life knows about, but should. I'll start things off: "Insan Insan" by Fazil Say (youtube below). I believe it is Turkish and religious/spiritually themed. I don't speak the language and don't consider myself particularly religious/spiritual, but wow does it pack a punch! Best listened to after sundown, sitting in a chair or lying in bed, pensively contemplating your existence:
https://youtu.be/fEzpsVi1Qd0
Cheers! -Kurt
People who are able to travel long-term, how do you take care of ageing parents? I feel like I am getting to a point where I can travel but my parents need me for so much I feel like I can't just do this long-term.
Hi Chris. Just wanted to share a bit of music which I recorded recently. Hope everything is going well!!
https://youtu.be/yqMMZf5l0iI
Lovely piece, well-played. Lots of feeling in that one.
Thank you!!
Hey Chris, this is something that's been on my mind recently and has been sort of a thing that has made me enjoy the pod in general less.
I really don't mean this as an attack at all, but think it's a valid conversation that the TS community rarely glances over.
The simplest way I can put it is - What makes the eco-village model different than the horde wealth and live in a bunker model.
Now my feelings go far beyond this specific example but this is a good way to illustrate it for me. It just seems like a lot of the remove yourself from society thinking is pretty similar to the thinking that most in the community would agree is very bad that a stereotypically shitty rich person would have, "I'll focus on taking care of myself my friends and my family" just dressed up in what is pretty similar to green washing.
I get the criticisms of modern life, but also I feel a lot of times the circumstances of us living under an incredibly exploitative kleptocracy is so often ignored. Permaculture is a technology just like all technology we have today. It seems pretty clear to me that what drives or technology affecting are lives in such a negative way is the incentives of our economy and systems.
How does running away and starting a small community help anyone but yourself and those lucky enough to be included in your community.
Also do you believe that further down the line if this kind of movement grew substantially that the government would not get involved in these planned communities? They sort of tried this kinda thing back in the hippy days and the US gov directly interfered and undermined these kind of communities.
To be able to build these communities u need to buy land which requires a level of wealth most people will never have, even if pooling from a large group of friends that vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck so they won't have that ability. So a part of me feels that this is people who have directly benefited from the exploitation of others who are worse off than them and are just leaving the mess behind and saying that's those people's problems. To me this is very similar to any wealthy person who just accepts they will make money by exploiting others and then isolates themselves from those who are exploited, like white flight in the mid 20th century, or nimby policies.
It sort of reminds me of my feelings on the current psychedelic movement where it seems like just ways to make rich people more comfortable with their place in society. And I get that this is accessible to many people who aren't necessarily ultra wealthy, but the vast vast majority of people will spend their whole lives working hard for nothing and will never have any ability to build up savings.
For example we have a wave of fascist legislation going through all over the country, leaving to form an eco community will shield you and those close to you from that mostly however there's an acceptance there that you have no power to help others who will be terribly affected by these and many other issues, which is not true. Whole I don't have much faith in our gov the idea that it is completely out of our hands is a load of crap.
And I just wanna end off by saying it's all love here, I do get where you are coming from and at the end of the day there's no use suffering just bc others do, at the same time there are a lot of things we can do to make the society we have better.
Your message as a whole has helped me a lot, your a big part of me learning to not hate myself, helping me realize I wasn't the problem like I used to think and that instead these fucked up conditions we live in are.
Also I don't know if it is just me, but from my perspective it seems like you have been recently going more in a direction I don't like and less in the loving compassionate angle that really attracted me towards your pod. Although this could very well be more related to changes in myself that I'm projecting onto u.
I wonder if you think having a garden is a waste of time because it won't feed the world? Land in Crestone, where I live these days, is among the cheapest in the US. When we came here a few years ago, we bought 2.6 acres with trees and utilities for $26,000. That's not more money than most people could ever put together, especially if they're pooling with friends.
I think we need to do whatever we can do and help whomever we can help. The fact that we're probably not changing the course of history shouldn't stop us from making small-scale improvements to our lives and the lives of people we love. If you 're gonna get hung up on the fact that whatever we do as individuals or small groups won't save people in Bangladesh from flooding or people in Sudan from drought, you'll never do anything other than throwing shade at people who are trying, which may scratch some itch of yours, but isn't contributing to anything positive.
Hi everyone, I hope spring has been treating you well! I’m looking to connect with others who live in intentional communities and are familiar with the process of joining one. I’ve found some online resources (r/intentionalcommunities, for one) but have mostly found a lot of people in the same position as myself. I’m strongly considering moving off the East Coast to find my place and people. The popular IC model in New England looks like private homeownership on individual lots. The fractious, isolated lifestyle out here is becoming untenable for me. I want to contribute to a community of people who share my values and find radical solutions to challenges of contemporary life. I’m a single parent of a four-year old for whom I hope to foster a true sense of purpose, meaning, and place. The learning curve of parenthood for me has been staying put, but even that is difficult here on Cape Cod, as rental leases tend to lapse at max 6 months to make room for short term vacation rentals. I’m a fast learner, hard worker, and exceptionally-dedicated person. What I lack is a shared sense of purpose in a larger community, and I find that void hard to navigate. If anyone has any guidance or even a contact to share, I’m all ears - very grateful ears!
Have you checked out Earthaven in North Carolina?
This is an awesome lead! Thank you so much, Justin! So far, I’ve seen no communities in my region that publicize a similar rental option. This looks like a great place to learn about and participate in a community-based model as a newcomer. I’m going to read through the rest of their website, watch some of the videos, and reach out to express my interest. I so appreciate the thought!
You're welcome! That's exciting! Please let me know what you think of the place. I've never been but I took have been looking for community and Earthaven has come up a few times!
Just joined the Telegram you linked above in the thread. I’ll catch up on the messages to orient myself a bit. I’ll definitely pass on anything helpful I encounter!
It's tough to find here in the "west" due to so many reasons.... several of which you mentioned. I have traveled to all 50 states and through most of Canada and what you seek is few and far between. It's much easier to find in some more traditional areas of Europe and, of course, in Asia. If I had to recommend one place in the USA, it would be the area directly west of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in Southern CO and Northern NM. There are some well-establish communities in the area that are trying their best to buck the consumer-culture BS theme of idiocracy USA. Learn permaculture, sustainable building, a holistic practice.... and then contribute. That is how you join. Best of luck!
The San Luis Valley is indeed a bastion of bucking the status quo but be forewarned, it is a harsh reality. I have 40 acres on the valley floor and it's not easy to work with the extreme elements. I am doing my best to develop my place as a refuge for healing (I am an acupuncture and functional medicine physician) Feel free to reach out I would be happy to chat and see if I can be of any service in your quest.
Thank you, Stirling, that’s very helpful advice. And confirmation of my suspicions of scarcity! I’m somewhat familiar with some urban communes around here, but they’re removed from rurality by definition and tend to be more like exclusive places for an alternative-minded upper class, if that makes sense. It takes a lot for places like this to survive, especially in New England, so those that have aren’t necessarily very replicable or accessible. Communality is expressly discouraged by US culture, economics, and policy - seemingly doubly-so for families. To want to shape one’s life along these principles is regarded with suspicion, regardless of how bleak the norm looks in practice. Thanks again, I appreciate your time!
Happy to show you around Crestone, if you come out this way.
Thank you, Chris! That’s a kind offer I’d be remiss not to take you up on when I make my way out towards the west.
I've been known to make a list of things to do that includes things I've already done, just so I can cross them off!
Hi Chris. Just wanted to say thanks for being a big inspiration and source of knowledge. You are one of the people who inspired me to start my own podcast, which, without exaggeration, has changed my life!
Here's a question for you and the community: Have you ever been in a city that you felt allowed you to live in tune with your human nature? Or is urban living by definition contrary to our evolution?
I'm an urban planner/designer and this is a fundamental question for me.
Barcelona, 1990 til around 2003.
why did you not move back?
I’m at an interesting crossroads (many options intersection) in my life where I find myself more freed up than ever before. And when I say freed up I would say emotionally freed up and loosened. The last two years I’ve felt Incredibly weighed down by something that one might call grief. As I start to feel this lift and have tons of observations about the impacts it’s had on my life and relationships I am finding myself unsure of where to go next in this journey. What a fun opportunity to be a bit lost. The ideas I see myself coming to are: buy a house? Get a PhD? Continue to travel? Buy property and start that retreat center I’ve been creating in my mind? Shift my career? Invest further in this career? Maybe all these questions can remain open and I can see if any or all get clarified. I’m thinking writing this out is an experiment in itself. Just to see what came to mind and what I even thought of as options.
Just basing my reply on what I have heard and read.... of those who came to the end of their lives and stated their regrets or what they wished they had done more of. That being: help / support others, and travel. No one ever said they'd wished they had worked more. Even all of the "happiness" books pretty much say those same things. Best of luck in reaching come clarity!
It's strange that we spend so much time thinking about what we would do if we only had the time, money, freedom, or ability and yet when we finally obtain what's required the mind goes blank. This is much lower stakes then your situation but during the week I often make a mental list of all the personal projects I want to attack when I have free time during the weekend. When the weekend arrives I can't recall any of it and I fumble around until I do. I think by writing it down you are creating something to refer back to. It's a good mindset to see moments of uncertainty as opportunities of freedom! I hope you path becomes clearer with time. And if you still find yourself unsure just do what Gandalf says, always follow your nose.
I do love a good list.
Hi everyone! I've been working on a project to build community, inspired by Chris and what I've learned from his writings about Fiercely Egalitarian Tribal Societies. It's been an ever changing process but this is the current state of the project: Helping to Bring Together People to Form Co-Owned Ecovillages! If you're interested in learning more, here's out Telegram Group, and FB Group:
https://t.me/+oebHpIBFavM2MTQx https://www.facebook.com/groups/nomadvillages/ Thanks, Justin :)
Hey Chris, I'm just down the road in Mosca and have a bunch of free time on my hands and some skills to help with your Crestone project feel free to reach out if you need an extra set of hands, happy to help.
970-331-1136 is probably the fastest way to get me, I am rather erratic with checking in with Substack
Hey Chris - I have (a long-winded) question I’d love your opinion on...
I’m new to Substack, I joined because 1) I’m writing a non-fiction book about skateboarding and I wanted to “grow my audience” as they say, so I could promote my book. 2) I write about a bunch of other things (that aren’t about skateboarding) and I just wanted to share my writing.
And I hear all this advice on substack that “you need a niche if you want to grow an audience”, some people have even suggested I should just write about skateboarding and not share my other pieces.... but I find that limiting and not honest to my writing or who I am.
So my question to you is - given what I have just explained - what would you do in my situation?
Would you stick to the niche of only writing about skateboarding?
Or would you write about whatever you want?
Or would you maybe do a third thing like make two substacks, one for skating and one for other stuff?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
P.S - I realise this is a long question and you have limited time so I understand if you can’t answer.
Either way I appreciate you and all that you do - thank you.
Hey Michael. I'd probably do two. I think the advice about having a niche is accurate for most people. You're looking for an audience, and it's hard to find an audience that's interested in everything and is going to choose you over all the other general-interest writers/podcasters out there. The competition is just too much. But how many people are there writing about skateboarding? Far fewer, so it's easier to find them (and for them to find you). Then you can coax some of them over to your more general Substack.
Thank you Chris, I really appreciate that advice.
Your a legend.
Anybody here ever gone back for a second bachelor's degree in a totally different field? I'm pursuing jobs with university maintenance departments, which offer 100 percent tuition remission so I could do it without needing to go into more debt. The goal would be to pursue masters coursework after. But that would of course mean dedicating the majority of my non-working hours to study and schoolwork for years. It gets me thinking about a concept brought up here a lot, the two currencies: money and time. Money is usually renewable, time isn't.
Hypothetical question for Chris and anybody else: if money were not a consideration - both tuition and potential future salary - is it worth pursing higher education just for the love of learning, the pursuit of knowledge itself?
I haven't earned a second bachelors but to this point I have spent an inordinate amount of time studying/learning/researching in the four years since I obtained my bachelors. Much of it is personal research and some more formal (a graduate certificate in evolutionary biology). Some would probably think I am crazy for spending so much time researching and learning in the hours after I get home from the day job. But when you are learning about a subject that you are passionate about, for me it's human origins, it's not time lost. It's self fulfillment. I think if you are considering getting a bachelors in a subject that you are truly passionate about, don't let doubts keep you from jumping in. But, if you are doing it solely for the credentials that is going to be tough to sustain. Just my two cents.
Hi Thomas, I got my Bachelor of Science in Music Theory (after dropping out of Pre-med) and then got another Bachelor of Music in Composition at another school because it had a recording studio and I wanted to learn that skill as well as be surrounded by musicians. It also served as detox for a pretty serious cocaine habit but that's another story. After moving to Santa Barbara, CA with a reggae band I got involved in the nuclear disarmament movement and took political science classes at the local city college. One a semester for several years. For me, academia offers a structure and environment that facilitates learning. If that works for you too why not take advantage of the resource if it is free to you? I wouldn't get caught up in the degree though. That is only for careerists.
Thomas, I have some thoughts on this. I am currently in a masters of architecture program, at the age of 36. I started my environmental science degree at age 24. Before that I did trades and oil &gas. Both times I went to school, it marked a change in direction and to a extent a new phase in my life, so it is good for that. I will say the most useful down to earth part of it was the 2 years of environmental science at community college. Those instructors know their shit and the skills you learn you can use. In general I feel that higher education is poorly done and I wish it was done differently. Currently the higher you go it seems the less practical it gets. Perhaps you like that stuff but I have found it less useful overall.
Also for every interesting class you can take on the way to a degree, you gotta take one or two bullshit required classes, which suck time and energy and give nothing back.
I would say the only reason to get a degree is so you can get the job that requires you to have a degree and/or sign documents, In my case it is environmental certificates and building plans. If you don’t want or need to do something like that, forget about the degree and take classes that interest you and avoid the filler. Become a renaissance man rather than some guy with a few degrees
Also, I have chatted with the maintenance folks in my university and they have access to free classes as well and one guy who had been working there for many years said he didn’t know of anyone who completed a degree that way which leads me to believe it is pretty difficult to make it work.
I've been thinking a lot about this and, like Andrew Ramos also suggested, I think this would be my approach at least in the beginning. Even if getting the degree wasn't a requirement for some sort of career I might pursue, I had this thought that it's at least a requirement to be taken seriously in any given field. The thing is, I don't have some clearly defined end goal of a career in mind. I kind of could not give a shit about having a career at all.
I studied english literature in college, but throughout my late 20s discovered I am fascinated by biology. If I took this job I could take advantage of broad course offerings in bio, chemistry, physics, etc. - picking and choosing one or two at a time - maybe coming up with a better idea of what specifically I like and am good at.
To me, it seems clear that academia and science professions steer people toward an ever-narrowing specialization. My mind doesn't work like that. I've tried for years to find 'my thing' - the hobby, skill, field of study, whatever - that finally felt like "this is the one, this is what I can dive deep down into and master". Nothing has felt that way. I get really into something for a while, go as deep as I want, and then move on to something else I've always been interested in. I'm finally comfortable knowing that I am a generalist and fascinated by the intersections, overlaps, and borderlands between various spheres of knowledge (which is maybe why ecology or biospherics as a whole are so appealing to me within the broad space of biology.) If I knew I had a dozen lives to live maybe I'd specialize, but as it stands, I don't.
I feel like I have nothing to lose taking a smattering of courses and if it doesn't lead me anywhere, I'll know one more avenue that no longer appeals to me as some sort of future path while still retaining the good things I learned. In the meantime, I'll have a paycheck and health insurance.
The answer to that question, it seems to me, is all about what you'd choose to study and why. Are you utterly fascinated by geology and just can't get enough knowledge about rocks and mountains? Are you going to study art history because a good painting can bring you to tears? In other words, will the time be well-spent? Personally, I get so turned on by learning/understanding/discussing that I can easily imagine doing something like this, but it would very much depend on the subject matter.
Hi Chris and TS Community,
As I read over the comments, the words “sex” and “sexuality” jump out at me…and remind me that it’s appropriate to share my message about sex in the hopes of sparking a discussion…and potentially some healing.
I’ve spent the past decade writing 5 books (fiction and nonfiction) to explore the mystery we call “sex.”
My fantasy series, THE SECRET SEX LIFE OF ANGELS, is an epic, erotic, tantric quest of one man’s initiation into the ancient “sexual mysteries,” My nonfiction book, OUR SECRET SEX LIFE: The Key to Humanity’s Destiny reveals some of the secrets we all carry between our legs and the hidden connections between sex, society, and survival. The book’s premise is that sex is much more than we realize. More than procreation or pleasure, sex is fundamental to our Humanity in ways we’ve forgotten and consequential in ways we can’t imagine.
After millennia of patriarchal and religious “mind-fuck” we’re ignorant of the fundamental and consequential importance of this defining aspect of our humanity.
How we conceive of, feel about, and engage in sex shapes relations between men and women, dictates the dynamics of family, and ultimately influences the values and structures of society. Consider sex the “source code” for society.
Since our SEX OS is so fundamental and consequential, the “story” we tell ourselves about sex will determine the kind of society we create, the health of that society, and possibly even the fate of that society.
But our SEX OS has been been hacked! And the consequences are catastrophic!
Could our hacked SEX OS and the collective trauma of shame we’ve all inherited about this defining aspect of our humanity be at the root of our self-inflicted, existential crises? Can a specie ashamed of the way it creates new life survive? Are we fucking up the world because our fucking is fucked up?!
The Hindu Vedas, India’s millennia-old holy texts, understood the fundamental importance of sex and warned that a society which doesn’t view the male and female genitals as symbols of divine principles and revere them as sacred instruments is doomed.
I apologize for the rant but I’m passionate about this. At 76 my impending mortality fills me with an urgency about getting this message into the world to inspire a cultural conversation and sexual healing.
I’m taking this opportunity to engage the Tangentially Speaking community and Chris in a discussion. Not just for better sex lives, but for society’s health and, ultimately, civilization’s survival.
Here’s a link to a recent article (5 minute read) I write that explains what I'm talking about::
https://medium.com/@jerryiweinstock/questioning-sex-1-wtf-is-it-f80d25b9c859
I look forward to your thoughts and comments.
Blessings to All.
So true, so much of societies ills are a result of our sexual hangups. How many lives have been devastated by these four words-he/she cheated on me 🙏🏻
Humans are so smart that I'm continuously dumbfounded by the society/culture that we have created. Why do most people work at jobs they don't like, why do we create so many toxins in our environment, why is there so much suffering in the world(wars, starvation, etc). I feel like if an alien race were to observe us they might think they are so smart how is this the best system/way of life they have come up with? Not sure what to do with this it's just frustrating that's all. 😏
Hi Chris,
I share your frustration. If you have not read Ernst Becker's "Denial of Death" I highly recommend it. For me it is the single best explanation for the mass neurosis that Western Civilization suffers. I've heard Dr. Ryan mention it a couple times in his podcasts but not sure why he doesn't reference it more often as it seems highly relevant to the whole Civilized to Death thread. The insight that this book provides doesn't turn our zoo in to a paradise but it does blunt the frustration. When you ask yourself "Why are they doing that?" you realize they are in denial of their "creatureliness"(as Becker phrases it) and you can forgive the inanity.
Thanks I've come across that book but not read it will che j it out !
The thing is, when we are born we aren't starting from ground zero. We are born into a world that has been going down a certain path for a very long time. The environment we are born into ironically produces paths that result in many of the problems you listed. In a round-about-way Robert Sapolsky's book Behave is a great (but long) read that demonstrates how much we are influenced by our environment. Even by events that happened hundreds, thousands, or millions of years before we were born.
Let it go baby! What's the point of being frustrated about something you can do nothing about.
Humanity is doing great considering we're all just a seething mass of neurotic impulses trying to interact with each other.
Yes the world is a fucking mess!
But it's also beautiful and incredible and people create amazing shit.
How I see the world depends on my perspective.
I spend my life between NZ and Thailand and I see beauty everywhere!! Even in the dirt and grime.
I was just thinking about that before actually. I'm in Pattaya right now, sitting on my deck look out over this crazy city to the sea. and the contrast of beauty and 'ugly' is huge. But I love it all.
Not sure how I'd feel if I lived in the US!!! Once upon a time everyone wanted to go there. Not any longer!! Ugh!
I hear the new Kennedy talk and it seems he wants to make it what I remember. Has he got a chance. Would love to think so but he's taking in the corporations! Hmmm...
Anyway I reckon the world just reflects back our own inner workings!
Have you got a touch of 'save the world syndrome'?
Almost every person who goes in to the helping professions, psychology etc, began by wanting to save the world.
And you're doing a great job providing guidence to people around their possibilities in life. You help people get curious and open their minds.
People often don't get that from their parents. Most parents want their kids to be safe, get a good job, have a family! Not go off to distant lands and roam the world getting into all kinds of trouble.
That's certainly a dilemma I've faced as a parent.
Im a free spirit, done very little formal work, lived a very different life to most.
But when it comes to my son I wanted him to do the regular thing. Maybe do the big OE and then settle down and have a family.
But I also want him to go off and do what I did!
Hes 37 now, still hasn't done either!! Lol!!
But he's still kinda living life on his own terms.
And he knows no matter what he does I support him.
Blah blah!
Fuck that was long!
Just wanna say I've been listening to you for about a decade or so. You really piss me off at times but I love you!
First episode I heard was you talking to that gay porn, star/evolutionary biologist dude up in the hills in San Fran! Connor Habib???
Very intimate convo. You said you weren't gay but he kind of made you wish you were! Lol!! Or something like that.
One of the first podcasts I ever listened to! Blew my mind and been listening ever since!!
Thanks Chris!
Thanks for your reply. I wouldn't say I'm that frustrated there's a lot of beauty in the world too and sometimes I even think how things work so well like getting food to grocery stores, planes coming and going etc. What is it you do that allows you to live between new Zealand and Thailand? Sounds ideal. Also not sure if you thought I was Chris Ryan as you were addressing him in your response. In any event thanks for your input.
I've been undergoing the painful process of coming to terms with the fact that I'm in a relationship that isn't going to work. Returning to the podcast has been a tremendous help in cutting through the fear and sadness swirling through my mind to focus in on my authentic voice saying "It's time".
I'm young and dumb, so I thought I could prepare myself for this, but you can't. It feels like my future has been blown apart, but this podcast and the people around it have helped me realize that the world and my possible paths aren't as small and constrained as I thought they were. I can sometimes mistake an open sky for a dead-end wall.
Im grateful for what I've learned here. Sending love to anyone else going through their own tiny obliteration. Fucking dramatic, but man it really feels like that!
Listen to your knowing. I was in the same space and when I saw there was no future, it was impossible to unsee. And the honesty was freeing. Even when the truth isn’t hopeful, the telling of it is.
I love these words. That there's hope and freedom in radical honesty, not just pain and loss, which is how it can feel in times like this. Listen to my knowing. Fuck yea. Easier said than done, for sure. Thank you.
It's a death when a relationship changes. Don't deny yourself the time to grieve. Life is made of deaths like this. No way around it.
Thank you for the advice, its just that - who knew? - grieving sucks! It's one of those things I consciously understood, but then somehow am shocked by how much the process actually still hurts in practice. I also love your use of the word "changes" instead of "ends" btw.
Thanks Chris. I've been looking more into the entire concept and existence of our authentic voice and it's been enlightening, so I appreciate the "introduction" to that.
It's all the same fundamental grief process whenever we encounter and process a significant loss...
Hi Chris, do you feel like your PhD was worth it? I'm in my 50s and feeling like earning it would be a credibility piece for me (i.e., the letters) but not sure it's worth the $ and time.
Hey Chris (and TS family) just chiming in here to say you NEED to check out an artist called Ren. All his stuff is great, but I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on his video “Hi Ren”.
Hi Ren reminded me of young Eminem that is extremely gifted with the guitar and lyrically. His struggle in the song I believe resonates with a lot of people these days, a place of being a sense of fitting in and finding purpose is heavy in a lot of souls, especially the younger generations. I turned 50 this year and have 31 year old son, life is not easy or is it hard, it is exactly what we make it.
I read Civilized to Death when it first came out. That book is solid gold -- it spoke to me in so many ways. I am at home in a deep forest or when living out of a bag, as I often do. I despise my smartphone and have been known to break them out of frustration. I was in the military from 18-38 and got out 10 years ago last month. Traveled the world for a while (30+ countries) and worked as a fire lookout for the last four summers because it gets me away from civilization - but, not enough! I am very healthy for a middle-aged man.... tall, good looking, and can outrun most dudes half my age. I commonly get hit on by vapid women a decade or more younger than me. Lately, I'm stuck in a rut - probably a "mid-life crisis" but, it just feels different.... like I'm spinning my wheels and no one is around to help push this car out of the mud. I need more purpose and meaning in my life. I need to meet others who share in my disgust of what is happening with humanity, the climate, society.... and do something about it! I feel a strong desire to "tribalize" with others like me except they are usually too far down the path of destruction. I know it is difficult for me because I was good at being a Soldier for two decades and now... nothing feels like it measures up. Being useful would be great! I would also like to meet someone but when I go out and interact with the public or attempt to date (god forbid) it seems to be a disaster and I retreat back to my cave. Why does it seem people are satisfied just staring at a screen or thinking about how they can get rich (and get over). I feel like I am right and they are wrong but I don't want to end up being "that guy" who thinks he's got it all figured out, because, damn it, I surely don't! I just don't get how people can live this way.... in the rat race, phone in face, eating shit food and waiting to die. It all seems pointless and perfectly acceptable to most. I don't fear death.... I fear not living life to the fullest!
Brother you are not alone, I just turned 50 in April and have many of the same thoughts and challenges that you laid out. It's a shitty rut to be in and harder still when you know you have more to give/contribute. Hang in there and feel free to reach out if you need someone to listen. 970-331-1136 (I know it's a dastardly phone but best I can do 😁)
I appreciate your reply. I know there are many other warriors and wanderers out there who, like me, are feeling this emptiness and wanting badly to just be useful.... and necessary. Like boats with engine trouble - we must find a way to get underway again, headed in the right direction. I know that change ultimately comes from within.... gotta want it and then do it! But, it's those external voices - the friends, loved ones, community, that create the positive environment that enables our transformation. That is the thing we lack more than ever now in this strange situation we call a society -- community. So, thanks for reaching out.... and thank you to Chris and all those who are creating / participating in these much-needed "communal spaces" in these interesting times!
Thank you for opening this space Chris! I should have looked at this more when I was paying for it. The book Glimmer by Kimberly Shannon Murphy is currently moving me. I wish I read it as a teen, and I wish more people understood sexual abuse and flashbacks. I would love to hear you interview her.
Your willingness to vulnerably discuss human sexuality has been so freeing for me. This book has complimented the courage you seeded in me to really explore why we live the way we do.
Also, it leaves me with way too many dark questions around how we became such a dysfunctional species.
One of the last pieces of media that really touched me re: sex abuse was listening to Tim Ferriss open up about his experiences on his podcast ("My Healing Journey After Childhood Abuse"--not sure of the ep.#). I don't always dig the vibe of his podcast, although I respect it and the type of work he does regardless. Anyway, that episode in particular I regard as one of the best interviews he's ever given. In it he embraces vulnerability in a way that, in my opinion, gives his stage presence and speaking voice a stronger (and more pleasant) ring of truth and authenticity than any other time I've heard him talk. Really good.
100%! That podcast was so good! His vulnerability was incredible. I think it's sometimes harder for men to open up about sexual abuse, especially a public figure like Tim.
I imagine he touched a lot of people. ❤️
Wow. Im just at the beginning but he offers a whole resource list, and its a treasure. I cant thank you enough for your recommendation, it is exactly what I have been searching for.
Glad to hear it, it is an exceptionally resonant episode. Feel free to update your audience with a review when you're done 😸
Thank you for the recommendation! I really appreciate it. I have felt the same way after listening to Tim, but will absolutely check this out.
Hey Chris - You seem like a guy that lives life with no regrets. But maybe I'm wrong. Is there anything you regret? What is regret about anyway? Are there any positives to regret? I don't know why I'm asking these questions, they just popped in my head. Curious what people think.
I don't regret mistakes or roads that turned out to be dead-ends. The only things I regret are when I hurt people unnecessarily (at least, it looks unnecessary from here) and relatedly, when I delayed doing something I knew needed to be done: a difficult conversation, leave an unhappy relationship or job, that kind of thing. But of course, we're all doing the best we can, so I guess I delayed because I couldn't do otherwise, but still, I wish I'd jumped sooner.
Talking about delaying the inevitable... Have you bought a guitar yet? What kind? What's the first song you want to learn/have learned? Where are you at in your music journey. Would be nice to get personal lessons with Rick Beato. I'm genuinely so interested in hearing all about it. Please take 5-10 minutes of a (B)ROMA to give us updates. You talking about learning from scratch as an adult could convince other people, who might be otherwise discouraged to start learning something new, to pick up an instrument themselves.
Asking as someone who waited until he got his hands on a free guitar at 23, and only regretted not buying one (or asking for one for Christmas) as a kid.
Beato considers his session master pal Tim Pierce a better and more versatile player so you may want to search out his lessons. Rick’s Les Paul, Jr. looks pretty sweet, but a bit dear. Best
We are the most advanced creatures on the earth. Intelligent apes that can do anything. Yet, weve given dogs easier lives than us. We work 12 hour shifts and buy large homes so dogs can have bigger spaces than ourselves. Today I worked and sweated 8 hours. I come home… my dog has moved from the couch to the floor. Why are coyotes living in luxury while monkeys do all the work? Surely monkeys could have thought of a better system then to let dogs have everyday off and we have 2 day vacation a year. This is like if lions were working an assembly line (assembly lions) while zebras got to hang out all day in the sun. Whats up with this? Love u Chris. ❤️
True, but there are plenty of dogs who aren't sitting quite so pretty. I'd say your dog is in the top 1%, probably. The Jeff Bezos of dog-world.
Haha true. Its not like theres a solution either. Like im not gonna make my dog start getting a part time job at Pottery Barn anytime soon.
I had the same thought this week as I went to plant tomatos and the dog was on my bed, not even interested in joining me because of the heat. So nice to realize im not the only one looking at dogs and thinkng this.
😂😂sucks my dog is too adorable to get mad at.
In this modern world, I often find myself thinking, "This isn't natural. This isn't how we're meant to live". My attempts to soothe that are walking around trees, being around other people, playing music. Or drinking to cope/numb. How do you deal?
Same. I cope those ways too, except cannabis. I am listening to the rain now too. I want to start meditating/breathwork more regularly. Just trying to find regulating activities can be hard for me, but long hiking makes my whole body/mind feel reset. Journaling helps me move past hard emotions/thoughts, might compliment the music playing! A creative outlet (drawing, painting) has been a huge help for me.
For me, like you, nature is a big help. Just listening to the rain, as I am now, noticing the movement of clouds, the smells of the air, feeling dirt in my hands. Literally grounding. Living in a tiny town helps.
Same exact way. Except instead of drinking. Just add more trees/music/people.
Just chiming in to watch the experiment unfold. I haven't been following the TS arc (or any others really) for awhile now, just due to being preoccupied with day to day stuff. I'm a woman near 40 living on the PNW coastline farming/gardening and I don't have a political orientation outside of "where does your food come from". I'm interested to see what's going on in this particular niche these days. Hope everyone's well.
I like your style
I love how you worded your political orientation, I feel the same way.
It took me a long time to get here. I used to have more of a "save everyone and everything" type of mindset (ie codependence writ large). That wasted so much energy that I barely ever got past the thinking stage of any particular concept or pursuit.
Lots of avenues for that conversation, but one tidbit that's springing to mind for me is a lyrical excerpt from a contemporary country song--"You ever seen a man whose kids ain't ate for seventeen days and counting?"
This thought about codependency got me thinking. I can see how humans fuse with political movements as a means to fill in the gaps of their own lack of self and this is helping me sort through something I’ve been seeing.
That would be a Mr Corb Lund lyric I believe! His music will get you thinking! He also basically single handedly saved a bunch of alberta from becoming a coal mine 4 years ago too so that was cool
You got it bud you know what's up 😸