A place where everyone knows your name (or screen name, anyway). Talk about whatever you want, but this month’s trigger question is: If you could live as an average person anywhere, any time, where would it be and why?
Hey TS listeners and Chris. I stumbled across a New Yorker article titled "A Case Against Travel".
It's a tricky one, because as someone who's travelling at the moment (and has been for 5 months) and often finding myself looking towards the destination of home (not that I'm homesick, but more that I'm trying to do as much as I can before I get homesick) I can't help but resonate with the article.
Some quotes like "tourism is what we call travel when other people are doing it."
GK Chesterson wrote that “travel narrows the mind.” and Ralph Waldo Emerson called travel "a fool's paradise".
"One sign that you have a reason to be somewhere is that you have nothing to prove, and therefore no drive to collect souvenirs, photos, or stories to prove it."
I'd like to hear what everyone has to say about this. I think it'd be a great topic to talk about in a ROMA (or especially a TOMA revival) since listening to Chris has played a huge role in my desire to travel and getting the courage to take action. I'm sure he's done the same for many here too.
Hey. Just read the article. Struck me as sort of a sleight of hand way to write. The empty core of the argument is expressed in the paragraph near the end, where she retroactively defines “travel” and “tourism” as being the same thing, which they are not. She writes, “The single most important fact about tourism is this: we already know what we will be like when we return.” OK, but then she continues, “The traveler departs confident that she will come back with the same basic interests, political beliefs, and living arrangements. Travel is a boomerang. I drops you right where you started.”
This person has no clue what travel is. The whole point of travel (not tourism, not “taking a vacation”) is that we are confident in the opposite of what she says. We have no clue how we’ll be altered by our experiences. All we know is that we will be changed. That we will never be able to “go home again” because we will be different than when we started. This was like an article about cooking written by a person with no sense of smell.
I long for a time prior to the internet and smart phones. I was born in 1989 so I grew up with the internet. And I believe it's a wonderful thing, but I long for a simpler time. Having so much information right at our fingertips can be great and overwhelming all at the same time. I can connect with people all over the world on my phone, but in my real life I feel no real connections to barely anyone. I watch movies and TV shows set in the 70s and 80s and it just seems to be such a time to be alive because connection to others seemed so much more organic and meaningful.
Hi Chris, just listened to your latest ROMA. You were talking about 1930s socialism and I think you might enjoy the podcast and mapping project Working Class History:
I would live in Aibonito, a mountain town in Puerto Rico, probably prior the modern era with less light and noise pollution. One of the most boring places on Earth. BUT at night a chorus of natural sounds wakes up. Múcaros and coquíes sang away to make the darkness vibrate and the occasional bat glide to the night with the expert malice of a sound catcher.
Honestly, ANY age in which my creative skills would've been appreciated and sought after, instead of this one in which idiots think machines can replace us.
The Black Plague? Meh, what's a few pustules in your skin if the patrons ask you to paint their portraits before they die...
Hi everyone! I'm Justin, I'm working on creating a healthy, replicating co-op Village model that'll bring together good people and starve the cancer that is Civilization! I'm on my third experiment, called GroundShare Co-ops, and it's going well! Getting lots of visitors and converting raw land into healthy Villages. If you're in Southern Oregon or Norcal shoot me a message to come by! Oregon for the summer, Cali for the winter. He's our FB Group with 3,400+ people and our newly launched Indiegogo: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nomadvillages/https://igg.me/at/h9wbXBNq5u0/x/37966565#/
What a cool topic to think about! Although I love my life living way up in the Colorado mountains, I always have been drawn to the ocean. When I was young, I read the Island of the Blue Dolphins and I always dreamt of living there. Maybe I would still fit in, probably not as beautiful or smooth, but still, I would love to live on an island, which to me are always timeless.
I haven't thought of this book in probably 20 years. I used to love to daydream about living on an island by myself a lot also. I might have to dig my old copy out to read for old times sake.
I am in greater london, and having a great time, right now. Blessed with enough income to live well, secure accomodation, parkland, friends, hobbies, an allotment (a rented space tp grow vegatables and flowers), a great Tai Chi teacher, a loving partner... etc.
It's bound to change one day as the wheel of life rolls on (not quite 70 yet), but right now it is a sweet spot.
Oh, and a healthcare service (NHS) that, although badly underfunded, might pull me out of a ditch with a mega fee.
As a Florida native, who’s watched his state go from bohemian hide away full of writers, artists, circus performers, abundant wildlife, breathtaking nature and healthy waterways, to a cultural wasteland and MAGA stronghold of the nations lamest people who abuse it; I’d love to live in Key West in the 70s so I could fish and drink half naked with some of my favorite authors like Thomas McGuane etc. I’m actually in Crestone as I write this fleshing out, the practicality and sustainability of maybe buying land to build on in the coming years to live somewhere where community and respect for the environment is still essential. Key West 72, Crestone/ some CO mountain town 2050?
I’m a Fly Fishing guide and was just in Key West and I hear you. I can only imagine what it would’ve been like in 72 freedom on the water like that and where whatever you want hell yeah I agree with that one.
No we haven’t. But I follow you and Anya’s socials and recent Homesteading/community building adventures in Crestone. I’ve been coming to the valley for 10 years now from when I used to live in CO, considering what you’re currently attempting. I would definitely like to pick your brain on everything from the politics of mountain poverty, to baca HOA laws, to mosquito populations potentially at some point.
I would choose Hawaii or Okinawa before the age of exploration, when I could have grown up in the ocean oriented culture undisturbed by colonialism, living off the sea.
Ha, it is the story of my life. I am an average person, and I live in rural Saguache Colorado in 2024. I like being here now at the brink of the future. Alive. Participating. I love being surrounded by the most untamed land we have here - available for the forage into on my whim. I love the opportunity to join circles and talk about solutions to problems, to laugh and enjoy each other. I lock nothing. Just had someone break into my truck this morning, and my neighbor's dog growled and woke her up. She hollered at them and they rode off on their bike with my 5# sledge...It was one of three young men we all know - hungry for a fix. Makes me mad and sad, but I can't think of any other place and time that was better, would be better for a woman like me to be alive. All eras and places have their wonders and their challenges. So I guess I will just stay here - boring .... huh?!
I would choose northern California prior to 1492, when the primordial forests and nature’s abundance was deeply respected and cared for by the indigenous peoples, who were nurtured in return. I’m sure there was conflict with other peoples but the idea of living among the ancient redwoods and beside rivers teeming with salmon is irresistible to me.
I moved to Austin in 1989 when I was 28 so my 30’s decade was spent living there in the 90’s. As a single, fun-loving, music fanatic that liked to take a stroll on the wild side every now and then, I don’t think I could top that. It wasn’t great for the bottom line, and my retirement prospects are grim, but I’m still grateful for that experience. Every day seemed to hold the promise of something really amazing that might happen.
Paris in the 20’s would probably have been pretty cool, too.
I lived in Austin from 2008 to 2022, and heard lots of stories about the old days (70s-90s). I would love to go back and experience Austin as a cool, chill college town.
Did you ever see the movie Slacker? It’s a Richard Linklater film set in Austin in the 90’s that does a great job of capturing the edgy zeitgeist of that particular time.
Before that, in my opinion. By 1998 the dot.com boom was in full swing, and people were moving there to cash in on it. It was a different vibe from moving there because of the music and quality of life. I remember seeing a new Mercedes Benz SUV with a “Keep Austin Weird” bumper sticker in the parking lot of Whole Foods and thinking that the jig was up for the slacker era. Every generation has their own demarcation line though. A lot of old timers thought it was over by the time I got there. Just a matter of perspective, I guess.
For sure. It was a slow death though that spanned decades.. I lived in a house of 5 misfit slacker manchildren in 09, where my shady ass was the only real “adult”, and the only one who hadn’t been a drug trial guinea pig for cash, or dumpster dived for food. Leslie was still roaming the streets in thongs bumming cigarettes. I think when Leslie died it was the final nail and now it’s Joe Rogan’s town.
Tough to pin down exactly. What might be nice is to live in time prior to industrial capitalism going whole-hog and making life generally tougher on lots of folks. And to also live in a region with an open, welcoming culture. I’ve lived in a few very different places across my life. In one of them it was way easier to make good, lasting friendships, even across demographics as an adult. In the others it was much more difficult. You want to live somewhere were you can find your community, have some freedom to do your own thing, and for sure not spend every waking hour in crisis over your precarity.
I heard a cool story once about Frank Sinatra. I guess he was in the hospital and did not have long to live and many of his friends had come to visit him in his hospital room. There was a conversation in the room about great places to live and vacations around the world. The question was asked where is the best place to live? Italy, Spain, The Caribbean, and many other places were mentioned. Frank, whose voice was not strong as he was not well, asked his friend to come closer to the bed so he could tell him where he thought the best place to live was. Frank said in a quiet voice "The best place to live is where your friends are"
I think there is a lot of truth to this story. In recent years I’ve been making lots of sourdough bread and have been enrolled in a baking school. Lots of study around heath. Digestion, gut microbiome, healthy living, and quality of life. There is a lot to be said for some of these older cultures where there are no processed foods. Things that you eat are grown locally by people you know and most importantly is the sharing of food and stories. Getting together for good long meals with people you can laugh and love with is so important. An environment that has these qualities is what I’m working towards. I also feel that this kind of place doesn’t have to be off the grid and way out in the sticks. I do love going to a cafe in the morning and getting a coffee and also sharing a cold beer at a bar with a few laughs can do the soul some good.
Right now I live in the Pacific Northwest on an Island. I have been looking in Italy at some amazing old houses. It is tempting to move there and set up shop.
I did just get back from my homeland of NYC for a week long trip and I love it there as well. Good pizza makes me happy! 🍕 Ok there is my quick two cents on the topic!
I love the idea of culture and connection being intertwined with food. The thought of sharing life and laughter over long meals is really beautiful. I wish the western world adopted this attitude rather than 'saving' time by eating processed food.
If I could live as an average person anywhere, any time, it would be in a hunter-gatherer tribe over 50,000 years ago. This era offers a closer connection to the true human experience, emphasizing community and nature without the constraints of modern technology and corporate labor.
Great question. I would want to go back to NYC of the 1970s. Yes it was gritty, and the crime rate was high. But rent was cheap, Times Square was a sleazy gem, and the music scene was the BOMB.
Can some please drop the link for the map of tangentialists? Is that still a thing?
https://facilmap.org/tspeaking#2/-47.4/20.7/Lima
Hey TS listeners and Chris. I stumbled across a New Yorker article titled "A Case Against Travel".
It's a tricky one, because as someone who's travelling at the moment (and has been for 5 months) and often finding myself looking towards the destination of home (not that I'm homesick, but more that I'm trying to do as much as I can before I get homesick) I can't help but resonate with the article.
Some quotes like "tourism is what we call travel when other people are doing it."
GK Chesterson wrote that “travel narrows the mind.” and Ralph Waldo Emerson called travel "a fool's paradise".
"One sign that you have a reason to be somewhere is that you have nothing to prove, and therefore no drive to collect souvenirs, photos, or stories to prove it."
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/the-case-against-travel
(You can use http://12ft.io to get past the paywall) ^^
I'd like to hear what everyone has to say about this. I think it'd be a great topic to talk about in a ROMA (or especially a TOMA revival) since listening to Chris has played a huge role in my desire to travel and getting the courage to take action. I'm sure he's done the same for many here too.
Peace, Locky.
Hey. Just read the article. Struck me as sort of a sleight of hand way to write. The empty core of the argument is expressed in the paragraph near the end, where she retroactively defines “travel” and “tourism” as being the same thing, which they are not. She writes, “The single most important fact about tourism is this: we already know what we will be like when we return.” OK, but then she continues, “The traveler departs confident that she will come back with the same basic interests, political beliefs, and living arrangements. Travel is a boomerang. I drops you right where you started.”
This person has no clue what travel is. The whole point of travel (not tourism, not “taking a vacation”) is that we are confident in the opposite of what she says. We have no clue how we’ll be altered by our experiences. All we know is that we will be changed. That we will never be able to “go home again” because we will be different than when we started. This was like an article about cooking written by a person with no sense of smell.
I long for a time prior to the internet and smart phones. I was born in 1989 so I grew up with the internet. And I believe it's a wonderful thing, but I long for a simpler time. Having so much information right at our fingertips can be great and overwhelming all at the same time. I can connect with people all over the world on my phone, but in my real life I feel no real connections to barely anyone. I watch movies and TV shows set in the 70s and 80s and it just seems to be such a time to be alive because connection to others seemed so much more organic and meaningful.
I’d want to be a part of the first group of humans that discovered and lived in Hawaii.
I would go back to Ireland in 1845 during the potato famine and invent the deep fryer, fries, potato cakes chips galore
Hi Chris, just listened to your latest ROMA. You were talking about 1930s socialism and I think you might enjoy the podcast and mapping project Working Class History:
https://workingclasshistory.com/
I really love it, definitely helps me to join the dots of today with cycles that are repeating from the past.
I would live in Aibonito, a mountain town in Puerto Rico, probably prior the modern era with less light and noise pollution. One of the most boring places on Earth. BUT at night a chorus of natural sounds wakes up. Múcaros and coquíes sang away to make the darkness vibrate and the occasional bat glide to the night with the expert malice of a sound catcher.
The 24th century of Star Trek Next Generation. On Risa or Pacifica.
(Of course, not counting the bs they are trying to sell as Star Trek these last couple of years)
Honestly, ANY age in which my creative skills would've been appreciated and sought after, instead of this one in which idiots think machines can replace us.
The Black Plague? Meh, what's a few pustules in your skin if the patrons ask you to paint their portraits before they die...
Hi everyone! I'm Justin, I'm working on creating a healthy, replicating co-op Village model that'll bring together good people and starve the cancer that is Civilization! I'm on my third experiment, called GroundShare Co-ops, and it's going well! Getting lots of visitors and converting raw land into healthy Villages. If you're in Southern Oregon or Norcal shoot me a message to come by! Oregon for the summer, Cali for the winter. He's our FB Group with 3,400+ people and our newly launched Indiegogo: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nomadvillages/ https://igg.me/at/h9wbXBNq5u0/x/37966565#/
Ty 🙏 Much Love, Justin
What a cool topic to think about! Although I love my life living way up in the Colorado mountains, I always have been drawn to the ocean. When I was young, I read the Island of the Blue Dolphins and I always dreamt of living there. Maybe I would still fit in, probably not as beautiful or smooth, but still, I would love to live on an island, which to me are always timeless.
I haven't thought of this book in probably 20 years. I used to love to daydream about living on an island by myself a lot also. I might have to dig my old copy out to read for old times sake.
I am in greater london, and having a great time, right now. Blessed with enough income to live well, secure accomodation, parkland, friends, hobbies, an allotment (a rented space tp grow vegatables and flowers), a great Tai Chi teacher, a loving partner... etc.
It's bound to change one day as the wheel of life rolls on (not quite 70 yet), but right now it is a sweet spot.
Oh, and a healthcare service (NHS) that, although badly underfunded, might pull me out of a ditch with a mega fee.
.... without a mega fee!
My heart wants giant, ancient trees and a culture deeply rooted to the earth. Irish druids come to mind, so do Hawaiian communities pre-Cook.
BUT the curiosity around ancient Egypt or Atlantis (I want to believe!) is strong, too. Clearly undecided 🤷🏻♀️
As a Florida native, who’s watched his state go from bohemian hide away full of writers, artists, circus performers, abundant wildlife, breathtaking nature and healthy waterways, to a cultural wasteland and MAGA stronghold of the nations lamest people who abuse it; I’d love to live in Key West in the 70s so I could fish and drink half naked with some of my favorite authors like Thomas McGuane etc. I’m actually in Crestone as I write this fleshing out, the practicality and sustainability of maybe buying land to build on in the coming years to live somewhere where community and respect for the environment is still essential. Key West 72, Crestone/ some CO mountain town 2050?
I’m a Fly Fishing guide and was just in Key West and I hear you. I can only imagine what it would’ve been like in 72 freedom on the water like that and where whatever you want hell yeah I agree with that one.
Hey Harlan. Have we met? Happy to help you in your Crestone exploration, if there's anything you need.
No we haven’t. But I follow you and Anya’s socials and recent Homesteading/community building adventures in Crestone. I’ve been coming to the valley for 10 years now from when I used to live in CO, considering what you’re currently attempting. I would definitely like to pick your brain on everything from the politics of mountain poverty, to baca HOA laws, to mosquito populations potentially at some point.
I would choose Hawaii or Okinawa before the age of exploration, when I could have grown up in the ocean oriented culture undisturbed by colonialism, living off the sea.
I would want to live in Athens 300 BCE and attend Aristotle’s school of philosophy
You should read the collapse of antiquity by Michael Hudson. Excellent book.
Here and now.
We live better than 99.9 % of Humans that have lived.
Good luck pre 1800 if you got really sick or hurt badly.
As to place, somewhere where you could be at the beach or the mountains within 3 hours drive, and English is spoken.
Love the Beach and Hiking.
Ha, it is the story of my life. I am an average person, and I live in rural Saguache Colorado in 2024. I like being here now at the brink of the future. Alive. Participating. I love being surrounded by the most untamed land we have here - available for the forage into on my whim. I love the opportunity to join circles and talk about solutions to problems, to laugh and enjoy each other. I lock nothing. Just had someone break into my truck this morning, and my neighbor's dog growled and woke her up. She hollered at them and they rode off on their bike with my 5# sledge...It was one of three young men we all know - hungry for a fix. Makes me mad and sad, but I can't think of any other place and time that was better, would be better for a woman like me to be alive. All eras and places have their wonders and their challenges. So I guess I will just stay here - boring .... huh?!
I would choose northern California prior to 1492, when the primordial forests and nature’s abundance was deeply respected and cared for by the indigenous peoples, who were nurtured in return. I’m sure there was conflict with other peoples but the idea of living among the ancient redwoods and beside rivers teeming with salmon is irresistible to me.
With the Lost Coast, there's still a lot of beautiful NorCal left, and if we work together we can restore it!
Yes indeed! I have property outside of Petrolia that we’re restoring. Gorgeous area, great community.
My thoughts exactly
Living in the rythmn of the natural world. Romantic ideas.
I moved to Austin in 1989 when I was 28 so my 30’s decade was spent living there in the 90’s. As a single, fun-loving, music fanatic that liked to take a stroll on the wild side every now and then, I don’t think I could top that. It wasn’t great for the bottom line, and my retirement prospects are grim, but I’m still grateful for that experience. Every day seemed to hold the promise of something really amazing that might happen.
Paris in the 20’s would probably have been pretty cool, too.
I lived in Austin from 2008 to 2022, and heard lots of stories about the old days (70s-90s). I would love to go back and experience Austin as a cool, chill college town.
Did you ever see the movie Slacker? It’s a Richard Linklater film set in Austin in the 90’s that does a great job of capturing the edgy zeitgeist of that particular time.
Austin in your 30s is fun for sure.
Especially when it was half as full as now!
I think the last days of Disco in Austin were 2010, before the tech bro became its new edge lord. So many classic venues gone in place of condos now.
Before that, in my opinion. By 1998 the dot.com boom was in full swing, and people were moving there to cash in on it. It was a different vibe from moving there because of the music and quality of life. I remember seeing a new Mercedes Benz SUV with a “Keep Austin Weird” bumper sticker in the parking lot of Whole Foods and thinking that the jig was up for the slacker era. Every generation has their own demarcation line though. A lot of old timers thought it was over by the time I got there. Just a matter of perspective, I guess.
For sure. It was a slow death though that spanned decades.. I lived in a house of 5 misfit slacker manchildren in 09, where my shady ass was the only real “adult”, and the only one who hadn’t been a drug trial guinea pig for cash, or dumpster dived for food. Leslie was still roaming the streets in thongs bumming cigarettes. I think when Leslie died it was the final nail and now it’s Joe Rogan’s town.
Leslie was the canary in the coal mine.
I’d just keep living here as an average person. North Idaho is a beautiful place, and my whole family lives here. I love my life.
Tough to pin down exactly. What might be nice is to live in time prior to industrial capitalism going whole-hog and making life generally tougher on lots of folks. And to also live in a region with an open, welcoming culture. I’ve lived in a few very different places across my life. In one of them it was way easier to make good, lasting friendships, even across demographics as an adult. In the others it was much more difficult. You want to live somewhere were you can find your community, have some freedom to do your own thing, and for sure not spend every waking hour in crisis over your precarity.
I'd go somewhere where I could be in a Tribe from birth, with lush healthy wilderness all around and live how humans evolved to live.
I heard a cool story once about Frank Sinatra. I guess he was in the hospital and did not have long to live and many of his friends had come to visit him in his hospital room. There was a conversation in the room about great places to live and vacations around the world. The question was asked where is the best place to live? Italy, Spain, The Caribbean, and many other places were mentioned. Frank, whose voice was not strong as he was not well, asked his friend to come closer to the bed so he could tell him where he thought the best place to live was. Frank said in a quiet voice "The best place to live is where your friends are"
I think there is a lot of truth to this story. In recent years I’ve been making lots of sourdough bread and have been enrolled in a baking school. Lots of study around heath. Digestion, gut microbiome, healthy living, and quality of life. There is a lot to be said for some of these older cultures where there are no processed foods. Things that you eat are grown locally by people you know and most importantly is the sharing of food and stories. Getting together for good long meals with people you can laugh and love with is so important. An environment that has these qualities is what I’m working towards. I also feel that this kind of place doesn’t have to be off the grid and way out in the sticks. I do love going to a cafe in the morning and getting a coffee and also sharing a cold beer at a bar with a few laughs can do the soul some good.
Right now I live in the Pacific Northwest on an Island. I have been looking in Italy at some amazing old houses. It is tempting to move there and set up shop.
I did just get back from my homeland of NYC for a week long trip and I love it there as well. Good pizza makes me happy! 🍕 Ok there is my quick two cents on the topic!
Cheers,
Jon Crane
I love the idea of culture and connection being intertwined with food. The thought of sharing life and laughter over long meals is really beautiful. I wish the western world adopted this attitude rather than 'saving' time by eating processed food.
Right here and now because we can have the challenge and take the opportunity to ask and to answer this question and many more like it. thank you.
If I could live as an average person anywhere, any time, it would be in a hunter-gatherer tribe over 50,000 years ago. This era offers a closer connection to the true human experience, emphasizing community and nature without the constraints of modern technology and corporate labor.
Great question. I would want to go back to NYC of the 1970s. Yes it was gritty, and the crime rate was high. But rent was cheap, Times Square was a sleazy gem, and the music scene was the BOMB.