As always, this is a special space for supporters of the podcast to share ideas, but I normally throw something out to spark conversation, so here’s one for you: Is there any shortcut to actually knowing another person? How do you know whom you can trust? I have to admit that I haven’t figured this one out. I feel like I get surprised and disappointed far more often than I should at my age. I’d be interested in your thoughts on this.
Could anyone point to me to a episode Chris has done somewhat recently with relation to the stigma around death/illness in modern day society? If I recall he spoke with someone in the medical field who wrote a book on this subject.. I may or may not be just losing my marbles.
This is a question that I also don’t have any answers for, but in Persian we have a saying that goes like this: “ You can never know someone unless if you travel with them.”
Question for Dr. Ryan. I’m looking for a human-friendly mosquito repellant. I’ve tried a couple with either lemon oil or other essential oils. They smell great but they don’t really work. Maybe marginally or modestly. I see you recommend a swatter on What Makes this Thing Great but I’m not sure that’s the best for hiking. Do recommend anything that works and ain’t toxic?
This is off topic, and I hope I don't come off as a negative nancy, but Josh Fox recently came back across my radar for the first time since listening to him a couple of times on old TS eps, and I'm curious if Chris and the community have any additional thoughts since then.
I heard this podcast https://www.blockedandreported.org/p/premium-double-trouble . Not sure if you're familiar with Jesse Singal and Katie Herzog, but they podcast about internet bullshit. I know the episode photo is really weird; I don't remember if they're particularly crass in that episode, and in case it's a bad first impression, I would say that in general they come from a level-headed perspective, and you'd get along with them.
The episode starts with Rebekah Jones who made a name for herself a couple of years ago claiming to be a persecuted whistle-blower in Florida. Long story short, she's a huge bullshitter and lied about basically everything (and I'm happy to provide more context if there are any Jones "fans" reading this). And Josh Fox is making a new documentary about her, and raising money on kickstarter (they have ~$60k currently). That in itself is really not a good look for Josh. Jones' claims don't hold up to a second of scrutiny, so it's shocking that he would look into the story and want to attach his name to it, let alone spend the time making a movie about it. Either he did no homework on Jones' situation, or he thinks he can benefit from the con.
But also discussed in the above podcast episode are issues in Josh's Gasland. I don't remember every point, but there was very credible evidence that Josh did not portray the situations in his documentary accurately, and that he went after people who had legitimate criticisms of his work. This includes the marquee scene of tap water being lit on fire (and hose-water being lit on fire in the sequel).
I don't say any of this to "cancel" Josh, and I would love to see if he has a different side to these stories. But I do think it's a cautionary tale about activism/truth/ego.
Chris, I can send you the mp3 of this episode if you'd like to listen. I don't want to offer it to the full community (it's a paywalled episode), but if you find it compelling, maybe there can be a substack arrangement or something.
I don't know that I have any specific advice on how to shortcut knowing another person, but some of the stuff mentioned in the opening to the episode with Michael Harrell about friends just sort of... fading out... made me think about the film The Banshees Of Inisherin, where one man abruptly ends his friendship with another. I thought that was an interesting look at the "break up" of a friendship, driven by one man's desire to know WHY the other no longer wished to be friends. Obviously a fairly "heightened", gothic fairy tale sort of exploration, but I quite liked it and thought of it during the intro to the last Tangential ep.
Trust comes in varying degrees. Do I trust you to make a sandwich that doesn’t kill me? Most of us make that judgment quite often, usually without much thought. We don’t know who makes the sandwich. We don’t care. Feed me.
The second I talk to you is the moment trust actually registers. I’m being vulnerable, I’m potentially disclosing information.
It’s all based on branding. If you look/sound/feel like an unhinged lunatic, you can expect a fair amount of un-trust.
Then again we sort of blindly pay taxes to a fairly unhinged bunch of degenerates without second thought so who knows.
I have a pretty simple rule: Avoid people always talking to themselves or always taking about themselves. Everyone else gets a fair shake.
Anyone who makes it past my phone number or email gets a background check and/or an NDA. But we all have our tolerances for different reasons.
Hey! This is just a general note to anyone who's interested: DMT is really worth a try https://youtu.be/U59Rl-O9OUc
It's relatively cheap and easy to set up a super effective vape, and for me at least the positive effects of integrating this substance into my life have been hard to overstate. I feel like it's the perfect psychedelic in so many ways.
Regarding friendship filter... I like to just treat everyone I meet as a potential friend, and then just try to spend as much time as possible with the people who's company I find myself enjoying the most. Of course the rub is that I find the more I pay attention and turn off judgement, the more I enjoy the company of everyone I meet 😁💖
I’m kinda surprised it hasn’t been mentioned, but I consider sex to be a shortcut for human connection, including trust as part of that. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always work, and I guess that’s part of why it didn’t come up earlier. Allow me to explain how I see it.
Of course sex can be mechanical and isolating. But even in the cases where the person you interact with is detached from the experience and doesn’t give much away, the vulnerability that the situation requires is enough to let you a lot more about them, and faster, than in any other form of interaction. Well, perhaps with the exception of drugs.
Actually, if the connection though sex turns out to be intense enough, I think it can lead to an enhanced state of consciousness resembling the effects of MDMA.
This is a fascinating topic, and even nore fascinating are all the different comments. It would be awesome if there was a Way to answer these questions in audio as well, to listen to all the voices.
Knowing: I lean more towards the side of the gut feeling. If course this is no certain science (but nothing is), No one will ever get to know someone else entirely. Like someone said many comments ago, in the end it is all about faith (which is not always helpful anyway), so you just trust that your judgement is ok.
But I feel like this is a process that happens between people whe they meet each other. It is not like a relationship is all about one trusting the other, but about trusting each other; and that requires for us to do the same as we expected people we meet to do. To be open and honest. That however is hard and impossible. So we present our best version and simply observe how the situation evolves...
Like navigating an ocean without destination - it might start in a nice sunny day at the port but it will get rocky and stormy - and perhaps destructive or hopefully constructive - at any given point. And nobody controls or predicts the ocean or the weather or mostly anything - so we learn how to navigate it by observing.
Knowing a person well enough to anticipate how they will handle a new situation is difficult, but I think there are shortcuts to learning about parts of a person. Mostly by being direct. The pandemic made it hard to meet people, and with so many interactions moving to the virtual, even moreso it became difficult to meet people whom were being honest and authentic. At least that's how I felt. After the pandemic I walked the Camino and tried meeting as many interesting humans as I could. Not for a study, but just as a means to learn how to talk to strangers anew.
I enjoyed trying to get vulnerable quick. Vault over a lot of the small talk and generic questions. Dig into people's hobbies and passions, not their jobs. Their ideas and opinions on things other than people. Get specific. Keep following up and diving in on an idea. Get deeper. The questions aren't necessarily the answer, but the method. The more the person is willing to engage quickly on a personal level is what I look for. A person who was willing to trust me, comfortably, with more personal thoughts and ideas felt more trustworthy with other matters.
Trust builds trust, I guess. Give them an opportunity to trust you early and easily.
Occasionally, people would maybe share interesting ideas and feelings, but follow up with "oh sorry, that was weird and personal" or "sorry for getting so deep". That doesn't make someone a bad person, but it tended to show early on if I was going to connect with that person or not, if they were open to the idea of trusting others (me). It felt easier to trust people that were comfortable going to those vulnerable and human places quicker, stay there, and really talk out deeper ideas. The people who said "skip" or made a comment about it being "weird how deep things got", I didn't tend to trust or connect with as much.
Also, finding something to disagree on. Not something personal. Just an abstract idea or philosophy is probably fine. But seeing the way a person navigates opposing ideas and challenges to their opinions can say a lot about them. Then again, some quick tempered people can be trustworthy. It's all a matter of what qualities you are looking for.
I’m young so I’m open to this being incorrect, but I’ve noticed how people treat themselves is often how they will treat/judge others. They may not do it openly but in their minds you know how and what they are thinking in certain situations. This has been true in my life so far. Any tips on how to not be a social chameleon? I have been working really hard on this and I am finally feeling what my true self is. Finding the balance on the spectrum of fully and unapologetically yourself, and being a complete mask wearer. Thanks homies!
In my work as a therapist so far I find the quickest way to getting to know someone and developing trust is meeting them where they’re at and imposing no value judgments on their words or actions that they can pick up on.
People tend to be like liquid and try to fill the container you put in front of them, so you practice being a mirror and not a vase. At first you mostly see their self-imposed containers, and often those personality vessels slowly those become more translucent, and then you see a more intimate substance that you can’t really label. It’s their humanness.
All that said, I do this work BECAUSE I’m always surprised by people. No matter how long I’ve been with a client or partner or whatever people always surprise me. That’s part of what makes it interesting, exciting, and scary.
I think being surprised and disappointed are natural outcomes to discovery, but that doesn’t make it bad, just part of the process.
If I’m traveling, I could be defensive and not trust anyone. Someone on a bus might ask “where are you from?” And in this defensive mindset I might think “I can’t trust this stranger, if I tell him where I’m from he’ll take advantage of me”. The conversation goes no where, there’s no discovery, no growth. I think a defensive mindset like this can not only prevent growth but also whither a relationship if one’s not mindful about it.
On the flip side I could tell the stranger where I’m from and they might have a story about visiting my home town that leads to great conversation. The next thing I know I’m getting invited to a cool party by a cool stranger.
Obviously disappointing things can and do happen, and I’m not saying a discovery mindset is blind trust. I try my best to not forget the things I’ve learned from past experiences.
If I get scammed while being in a discovery mindset I have to accept the fact that I’m not perfect and I was making the best choices I could have made at the time. The next time I’m in a similar scenario I might be able to pick up on something faster and avoid the disappointment. I think it’s possible to be aware without being defensive, but there is a thin line.
I think the difference between discovery and defensiveness is that with discovery I’m not seeking/ actively avoiding disappointment. When disappointment happens, I see it in the same way as a storm, a natural phenomenon, that I can’t control, and that I need to accept while I’m going through it. And maybe the next time a storm comes through I’ll have built a shelter and be more prepared for future occurrences.
My filter for dating was how do they treat service workers, the elderly, children and pets..hasn't failed me yet....my motto for friendship is "I wish for everything good for the other, and want nothing from them" .... other than good company and hopefully enriching conversations.
My loyalty for the people I choose to love, lasts decades, and I have friendships that date back to preschool.
I find a good filter for friendships/relationships to be a willingness for both sides to accept the other for who they are. I’ve lost friends who expected me to reach out to them more than I did or who found me strange for me living abroad and seemed to only be interested in challenging that decision.
I was in a relationship in which my partner expected a certain amount and quality of communication via text/FaceTime while we were long distance. This expectation was a nightmare for me led to me lacking the desire to talk and to be dispassionate when we did. We shouldn’t owe people anything more than ourselves (within reason, I’m happy to call mom & dad every Sunday)
I have learned from personal experience that I get some gut instict, something I cant really put into words. Sometimes i trust it and im usually right..and other times i doubt my own instinct and im disappointed. For instance, my wife has a friend and I dont know what it was but I always felt uncomfortable around her, I couldnt say why....later we found out she was lying about her relationship (told us she was married, then that she wasnt), there were job losses, shop lifting and an arrest. This is just to say that some part of me was picking up on this at the same time part of me was trying to tell me i was wrong. On the other hand, there are a handful of people i have met over my years that i had the easiest relationships with almost immediately. People who i can be out of contact with for years and then i can connect and its like no time has passed. There was a colleague i worked with for two years from 1996-1998...and we stayed in contact until i moved out of state 17 years ago. I had an urge to reach out this year and when we finally talked, we went over some chronological happenings but after that it felt like any other conversation we had 20 years previously. Perhaps there are no rational or logical explanations for these connections, the positive or negative. Maybe the mysterious uncertainty of how humans connect is what makes life interesting.
Good question. I go back to a quote from Voltaire, "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers". This quote aligns with one of your go-to sayings of seek those who seek the truth and run from those who claimed they found it. When I listen to people talk, I, generally, listen to the questions they ask rather than the opinions they provide. This can give major insight into their psyche and set the foundation of whether or not said person would be compatible or not.
Listening to the Moby podcast and the story about the birthday gift book was hilarious.
Next year, maybe around fall or so, I'm looking at doing a road trip from Kansas through Colorado and then up to Wyoming. If our schedules align, I'll check out Crestone and say hi.
Travel with the person for a long period of time (more than 2 weeks). The usual home condition don’t bring out the whole spectrum of behaviour and character. That’s something I picked up from the podcast!
I think it may be a mismatch in understanding between people. Throughout my life I have had several relationships with people that I thought were my friends only to find out later I had valued the relationship much more than they did. It was sad and disappointing. So does this mean that I should not foster deep friendships anymore? Nope. It just means I need to adjust. The way I see it there are at least three options: (1) give up and don't try to get close to people, (2) calibrate my expectations to reality more, and/or (3) keep making friendships until I find someone on the same page as me. Personally, I vote for option number three.
Truce with a lisp or Ruth with a T… trust is all about the truth… that we can’t absolutely know… so I guess trust is something you “know when it happens” like love? A belief? All of the things that happen are there… I trust everyone because I trust no one! It’s very free to know you’ve got nothing to lose by putting it all out there…
Trust your intuition… every time I second guess it I’m wrong… be as open as possible and they’ll come on in and you can see them… good luck with definitives here… nothing really can tell in this nebulous zone…
It’s one of those deals where you just gotta not give a shit and trust people until they give you a reason not to. I guess it’s an act of faith like everything else. What are you trusting people with? Your secrets ? Your map to the gold? You gotta put the vibe out to the world that you are trustworthy and it may come back to you. Hold yourself to a high standard but also be willing to cut people some slack. Also don’t be completely naive and trust people with your passwords ect . In the long run you have to put faith in other people and they will put faith in you . One of those things were it’s not really gonna matter when your dead anyway.
I find you can tell a lot about a person by how they interact with strangers in public- waiters, cashiers, service people, others. Probably shouldn't decide to trust someone based on it, but it's a quick way to read into someone I've found.
Yes. Take MDMA with that person as soon as possible...
Back in my youth when I went to clubs/raves one thing that stood out was how easy it was to make near best friends in the space of a few hours where we would share the most intimate details of our lives; our insecurities, passions, perspectives, without even questioning wether we should on fear of being judged. They were overwhelmingly positive moments of compassion and love.
There is no doubt that when the experience was over and that high washed away and was replaced by a subtle (although sometimes not so subtle) melancholy, that it was easy to think the experience was artificial and therefore invalid - certainly when I saw these people again on sober levels it was sometimes a challenge to reconnect like we did when high.
Having said that I feel that was due to not having the right tools to be able to incorporate those positive perspectives into the mostly sober existence. This is where I think under therapeutic conditions it is best used and I am overly ecstatic to see the trajectory where one day, possibly soon, anyone may be able to have these assisted sessions to bring those levels of acceptance into their lives and those around them.
...or you can simply tell them you need helping hiding a body and see how they react
Might seem to be a weird question: does it bother you much if people are lying?
Edit: since there already are 2 answers to the question, I think it's better if I would clarify that it was meant as a inquiry back to Chris before getting to his questions.
I don't mind other people's answers, I just don't know what to do with them since my question has no personal relevance to me.
Interesting...I would say ignoring a person's words and paying attention to their actions (or lack of actions) is one thing I have learned over the years. But then again, are any of us the same person at any given time? I think there are probably phases where we are each more trustworthy than at other phases. Then comes the problem of people actually believing what they are feeling, saying, or experiencing when it's not reality. I suspect the complexities of us as individuals and in groups means a shortcut to trusting probably doesn't exist. The best we can do is the fancy neocortex we inherited from ancestors past.
That seems a poignant question, right now. I wish I had an answer. I miss trusting certain media, before it was complicit in blocking Bernie/feeding Trump, etc. Though I can't even be sure of that. The more honestly I look at my own motivations, historical and present, the harder I find it to trust myself. If I am forced to find faith in anything, it's in nature, time and constant change. Everything is fine in non-linear time.
I don't know, but I'd like to. I asked this question to a friend that I worked with a few years ago, and he said "I've always found that the best way to find out if you can trust someone...is just to trust them."
Yeah. I still don't know about that, but it did stick with me.
Could anyone point to me to a episode Chris has done somewhat recently with relation to the stigma around death/illness in modern day society? If I recall he spoke with someone in the medical field who wrote a book on this subject.. I may or may not be just losing my marbles.
This is a question that I also don’t have any answers for, but in Persian we have a saying that goes like this: “ You can never know someone unless if you travel with them.”
Thanks, JK.
Question for Dr. Ryan. I’m looking for a human-friendly mosquito repellant. I’ve tried a couple with either lemon oil or other essential oils. They smell great but they don’t really work. Maybe marginally or modestly. I see you recommend a swatter on What Makes this Thing Great but I’m not sure that’s the best for hiking. Do recommend anything that works and ain’t toxic?
Technical question here fam: first time Apple user. How do I tell Apple Podcasts I’ve subscribed to TS so I can get all the episodes and what not?
This is off topic, and I hope I don't come off as a negative nancy, but Josh Fox recently came back across my radar for the first time since listening to him a couple of times on old TS eps, and I'm curious if Chris and the community have any additional thoughts since then.
I heard this podcast https://www.blockedandreported.org/p/premium-double-trouble . Not sure if you're familiar with Jesse Singal and Katie Herzog, but they podcast about internet bullshit. I know the episode photo is really weird; I don't remember if they're particularly crass in that episode, and in case it's a bad first impression, I would say that in general they come from a level-headed perspective, and you'd get along with them.
The episode starts with Rebekah Jones who made a name for herself a couple of years ago claiming to be a persecuted whistle-blower in Florida. Long story short, she's a huge bullshitter and lied about basically everything (and I'm happy to provide more context if there are any Jones "fans" reading this). And Josh Fox is making a new documentary about her, and raising money on kickstarter (they have ~$60k currently). That in itself is really not a good look for Josh. Jones' claims don't hold up to a second of scrutiny, so it's shocking that he would look into the story and want to attach his name to it, let alone spend the time making a movie about it. Either he did no homework on Jones' situation, or he thinks he can benefit from the con.
But also discussed in the above podcast episode are issues in Josh's Gasland. I don't remember every point, but there was very credible evidence that Josh did not portray the situations in his documentary accurately, and that he went after people who had legitimate criticisms of his work. This includes the marquee scene of tap water being lit on fire (and hose-water being lit on fire in the sequel).
I don't say any of this to "cancel" Josh, and I would love to see if he has a different side to these stories. But I do think it's a cautionary tale about activism/truth/ego.
Chris, I can send you the mp3 of this episode if you'd like to listen. I don't want to offer it to the full community (it's a paywalled episode), but if you find it compelling, maybe there can be a substack arrangement or something.
I don't know that I have any specific advice on how to shortcut knowing another person, but some of the stuff mentioned in the opening to the episode with Michael Harrell about friends just sort of... fading out... made me think about the film The Banshees Of Inisherin, where one man abruptly ends his friendship with another. I thought that was an interesting look at the "break up" of a friendship, driven by one man's desire to know WHY the other no longer wished to be friends. Obviously a fairly "heightened", gothic fairy tale sort of exploration, but I quite liked it and thought of it during the intro to the last Tangential ep.
Trust comes in varying degrees. Do I trust you to make a sandwich that doesn’t kill me? Most of us make that judgment quite often, usually without much thought. We don’t know who makes the sandwich. We don’t care. Feed me.
The second I talk to you is the moment trust actually registers. I’m being vulnerable, I’m potentially disclosing information.
It’s all based on branding. If you look/sound/feel like an unhinged lunatic, you can expect a fair amount of un-trust.
Then again we sort of blindly pay taxes to a fairly unhinged bunch of degenerates without second thought so who knows.
I have a pretty simple rule: Avoid people always talking to themselves or always taking about themselves. Everyone else gets a fair shake.
Anyone who makes it past my phone number or email gets a background check and/or an NDA. But we all have our tolerances for different reasons.
Salut!
Hey! This is just a general note to anyone who's interested: DMT is really worth a try https://youtu.be/U59Rl-O9OUc
It's relatively cheap and easy to set up a super effective vape, and for me at least the positive effects of integrating this substance into my life have been hard to overstate. I feel like it's the perfect psychedelic in so many ways.
Regarding friendship filter... I like to just treat everyone I meet as a potential friend, and then just try to spend as much time as possible with the people who's company I find myself enjoying the most. Of course the rub is that I find the more I pay attention and turn off judgement, the more I enjoy the company of everyone I meet 😁💖
I’m kinda surprised it hasn’t been mentioned, but I consider sex to be a shortcut for human connection, including trust as part of that. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always work, and I guess that’s part of why it didn’t come up earlier. Allow me to explain how I see it.
Of course sex can be mechanical and isolating. But even in the cases where the person you interact with is detached from the experience and doesn’t give much away, the vulnerability that the situation requires is enough to let you a lot more about them, and faster, than in any other form of interaction. Well, perhaps with the exception of drugs.
Actually, if the connection though sex turns out to be intense enough, I think it can lead to an enhanced state of consciousness resembling the effects of MDMA.
This is a fascinating topic, and even nore fascinating are all the different comments. It would be awesome if there was a Way to answer these questions in audio as well, to listen to all the voices.
Knowing: I lean more towards the side of the gut feeling. If course this is no certain science (but nothing is), No one will ever get to know someone else entirely. Like someone said many comments ago, in the end it is all about faith (which is not always helpful anyway), so you just trust that your judgement is ok.
But I feel like this is a process that happens between people whe they meet each other. It is not like a relationship is all about one trusting the other, but about trusting each other; and that requires for us to do the same as we expected people we meet to do. To be open and honest. That however is hard and impossible. So we present our best version and simply observe how the situation evolves...
Like navigating an ocean without destination - it might start in a nice sunny day at the port but it will get rocky and stormy - and perhaps destructive or hopefully constructive - at any given point. And nobody controls or predicts the ocean or the weather or mostly anything - so we learn how to navigate it by observing.
Knowing a person well enough to anticipate how they will handle a new situation is difficult, but I think there are shortcuts to learning about parts of a person. Mostly by being direct. The pandemic made it hard to meet people, and with so many interactions moving to the virtual, even moreso it became difficult to meet people whom were being honest and authentic. At least that's how I felt. After the pandemic I walked the Camino and tried meeting as many interesting humans as I could. Not for a study, but just as a means to learn how to talk to strangers anew.
I enjoyed trying to get vulnerable quick. Vault over a lot of the small talk and generic questions. Dig into people's hobbies and passions, not their jobs. Their ideas and opinions on things other than people. Get specific. Keep following up and diving in on an idea. Get deeper. The questions aren't necessarily the answer, but the method. The more the person is willing to engage quickly on a personal level is what I look for. A person who was willing to trust me, comfortably, with more personal thoughts and ideas felt more trustworthy with other matters.
Trust builds trust, I guess. Give them an opportunity to trust you early and easily.
Occasionally, people would maybe share interesting ideas and feelings, but follow up with "oh sorry, that was weird and personal" or "sorry for getting so deep". That doesn't make someone a bad person, but it tended to show early on if I was going to connect with that person or not, if they were open to the idea of trusting others (me). It felt easier to trust people that were comfortable going to those vulnerable and human places quicker, stay there, and really talk out deeper ideas. The people who said "skip" or made a comment about it being "weird how deep things got", I didn't tend to trust or connect with as much.
Also, finding something to disagree on. Not something personal. Just an abstract idea or philosophy is probably fine. But seeing the way a person navigates opposing ideas and challenges to their opinions can say a lot about them. Then again, some quick tempered people can be trustworthy. It's all a matter of what qualities you are looking for.
I’m young so I’m open to this being incorrect, but I’ve noticed how people treat themselves is often how they will treat/judge others. They may not do it openly but in their minds you know how and what they are thinking in certain situations. This has been true in my life so far. Any tips on how to not be a social chameleon? I have been working really hard on this and I am finally feeling what my true self is. Finding the balance on the spectrum of fully and unapologetically yourself, and being a complete mask wearer. Thanks homies!
In my work as a therapist so far I find the quickest way to getting to know someone and developing trust is meeting them where they’re at and imposing no value judgments on their words or actions that they can pick up on.
People tend to be like liquid and try to fill the container you put in front of them, so you practice being a mirror and not a vase. At first you mostly see their self-imposed containers, and often those personality vessels slowly those become more translucent, and then you see a more intimate substance that you can’t really label. It’s their humanness.
All that said, I do this work BECAUSE I’m always surprised by people. No matter how long I’ve been with a client or partner or whatever people always surprise me. That’s part of what makes it interesting, exciting, and scary.
I think being surprised and disappointed are natural outcomes to discovery, but that doesn’t make it bad, just part of the process.
If I’m traveling, I could be defensive and not trust anyone. Someone on a bus might ask “where are you from?” And in this defensive mindset I might think “I can’t trust this stranger, if I tell him where I’m from he’ll take advantage of me”. The conversation goes no where, there’s no discovery, no growth. I think a defensive mindset like this can not only prevent growth but also whither a relationship if one’s not mindful about it.
On the flip side I could tell the stranger where I’m from and they might have a story about visiting my home town that leads to great conversation. The next thing I know I’m getting invited to a cool party by a cool stranger.
Obviously disappointing things can and do happen, and I’m not saying a discovery mindset is blind trust. I try my best to not forget the things I’ve learned from past experiences.
If I get scammed while being in a discovery mindset I have to accept the fact that I’m not perfect and I was making the best choices I could have made at the time. The next time I’m in a similar scenario I might be able to pick up on something faster and avoid the disappointment. I think it’s possible to be aware without being defensive, but there is a thin line.
I think the difference between discovery and defensiveness is that with discovery I’m not seeking/ actively avoiding disappointment. When disappointment happens, I see it in the same way as a storm, a natural phenomenon, that I can’t control, and that I need to accept while I’m going through it. And maybe the next time a storm comes through I’ll have built a shelter and be more prepared for future occurrences.
My filter for dating was how do they treat service workers, the elderly, children and pets..hasn't failed me yet....my motto for friendship is "I wish for everything good for the other, and want nothing from them" .... other than good company and hopefully enriching conversations.
My loyalty for the people I choose to love, lasts decades, and I have friendships that date back to preschool.
I find a good filter for friendships/relationships to be a willingness for both sides to accept the other for who they are. I’ve lost friends who expected me to reach out to them more than I did or who found me strange for me living abroad and seemed to only be interested in challenging that decision.
I was in a relationship in which my partner expected a certain amount and quality of communication via text/FaceTime while we were long distance. This expectation was a nightmare for me led to me lacking the desire to talk and to be dispassionate when we did. We shouldn’t owe people anything more than ourselves (within reason, I’m happy to call mom & dad every Sunday)
A brief video that might shed a little light on trusting the analytical mind too much....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg_xqTAIAYU
I have learned from personal experience that I get some gut instict, something I cant really put into words. Sometimes i trust it and im usually right..and other times i doubt my own instinct and im disappointed. For instance, my wife has a friend and I dont know what it was but I always felt uncomfortable around her, I couldnt say why....later we found out she was lying about her relationship (told us she was married, then that she wasnt), there were job losses, shop lifting and an arrest. This is just to say that some part of me was picking up on this at the same time part of me was trying to tell me i was wrong. On the other hand, there are a handful of people i have met over my years that i had the easiest relationships with almost immediately. People who i can be out of contact with for years and then i can connect and its like no time has passed. There was a colleague i worked with for two years from 1996-1998...and we stayed in contact until i moved out of state 17 years ago. I had an urge to reach out this year and when we finally talked, we went over some chronological happenings but after that it felt like any other conversation we had 20 years previously. Perhaps there are no rational or logical explanations for these connections, the positive or negative. Maybe the mysterious uncertainty of how humans connect is what makes life interesting.
Hi Chris,
Good question. I go back to a quote from Voltaire, "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers". This quote aligns with one of your go-to sayings of seek those who seek the truth and run from those who claimed they found it. When I listen to people talk, I, generally, listen to the questions they ask rather than the opinions they provide. This can give major insight into their psyche and set the foundation of whether or not said person would be compatible or not.
Listening to the Moby podcast and the story about the birthday gift book was hilarious.
Next year, maybe around fall or so, I'm looking at doing a road trip from Kansas through Colorado and then up to Wyoming. If our schedules align, I'll check out Crestone and say hi.
Hope all is well.
Travel with the person for a long period of time (more than 2 weeks). The usual home condition don’t bring out the whole spectrum of behaviour and character. That’s something I picked up from the podcast!
Make sure whomever you trust has as much to (lose or gain ) in the deal as you do…
I think it may be a mismatch in understanding between people. Throughout my life I have had several relationships with people that I thought were my friends only to find out later I had valued the relationship much more than they did. It was sad and disappointing. So does this mean that I should not foster deep friendships anymore? Nope. It just means I need to adjust. The way I see it there are at least three options: (1) give up and don't try to get close to people, (2) calibrate my expectations to reality more, and/or (3) keep making friendships until I find someone on the same page as me. Personally, I vote for option number three.
Truce with a lisp or Ruth with a T… trust is all about the truth… that we can’t absolutely know… so I guess trust is something you “know when it happens” like love? A belief? All of the things that happen are there… I trust everyone because I trust no one! It’s very free to know you’ve got nothing to lose by putting it all out there…
Trust your intuition… every time I second guess it I’m wrong… be as open as possible and they’ll come on in and you can see them… good luck with definitives here… nothing really can tell in this nebulous zone…
It’s one of those deals where you just gotta not give a shit and trust people until they give you a reason not to. I guess it’s an act of faith like everything else. What are you trusting people with? Your secrets ? Your map to the gold? You gotta put the vibe out to the world that you are trustworthy and it may come back to you. Hold yourself to a high standard but also be willing to cut people some slack. Also don’t be completely naive and trust people with your passwords ect . In the long run you have to put faith in other people and they will put faith in you . One of those things were it’s not really gonna matter when your dead anyway.
I find you can tell a lot about a person by how they interact with strangers in public- waiters, cashiers, service people, others. Probably shouldn't decide to trust someone based on it, but it's a quick way to read into someone I've found.
Yes. Take MDMA with that person as soon as possible...
Back in my youth when I went to clubs/raves one thing that stood out was how easy it was to make near best friends in the space of a few hours where we would share the most intimate details of our lives; our insecurities, passions, perspectives, without even questioning wether we should on fear of being judged. They were overwhelmingly positive moments of compassion and love.
There is no doubt that when the experience was over and that high washed away and was replaced by a subtle (although sometimes not so subtle) melancholy, that it was easy to think the experience was artificial and therefore invalid - certainly when I saw these people again on sober levels it was sometimes a challenge to reconnect like we did when high.
Having said that I feel that was due to not having the right tools to be able to incorporate those positive perspectives into the mostly sober existence. This is where I think under therapeutic conditions it is best used and I am overly ecstatic to see the trajectory where one day, possibly soon, anyone may be able to have these assisted sessions to bring those levels of acceptance into their lives and those around them.
...or you can simply tell them you need helping hiding a body and see how they react
Might seem to be a weird question: does it bother you much if people are lying?
Edit: since there already are 2 answers to the question, I think it's better if I would clarify that it was meant as a inquiry back to Chris before getting to his questions.
I don't mind other people's answers, I just don't know what to do with them since my question has no personal relevance to me.
Interesting...I would say ignoring a person's words and paying attention to their actions (or lack of actions) is one thing I have learned over the years. But then again, are any of us the same person at any given time? I think there are probably phases where we are each more trustworthy than at other phases. Then comes the problem of people actually believing what they are feeling, saying, or experiencing when it's not reality. I suspect the complexities of us as individuals and in groups means a shortcut to trusting probably doesn't exist. The best we can do is the fancy neocortex we inherited from ancestors past.
Talk about kids or dogs.
That seems a poignant question, right now. I wish I had an answer. I miss trusting certain media, before it was complicit in blocking Bernie/feeding Trump, etc. Though I can't even be sure of that. The more honestly I look at my own motivations, historical and present, the harder I find it to trust myself. If I am forced to find faith in anything, it's in nature, time and constant change. Everything is fine in non-linear time.
I don't know, but I'd like to. I asked this question to a friend that I worked with a few years ago, and he said "I've always found that the best way to find out if you can trust someone...is just to trust them."
Yeah. I still don't know about that, but it did stick with me.