Marc was diagnosed with Tourette’s Syndrome at 9. Every medical professional concluded that his condition was uncontrollable, but Marc overcame Tourette’s in 2013.
this Steely Dan track has the telltale “wishyness” sound of a poor quality mp3 file. not the end of the world, but worth correcting unless it’s intentional for flying beneath the copyright radar. cool and interesting song, though. love y’all!
Thanks for the heads up. I mix down the audio so the files aren't too big, and since most of it's just talking, that's fine. the music is meant to introduce people to stuff they may not know, so they'll dial it up on their own systems to listen to at higher quality if they dig it. I know the music doesn't sound great, but I don't want to give people 200mb files do deal with, so audio quality is a sacrifice. People should listen to Steely Dan at the highest quality possible, preferably on headphones!
Hey Chris, long time listener and subscriber here (slightly older than you). In the past you have valued critical thinking, encouraging people to consider people’s motivations when considering what they say. Your last interviews about UFOs and NXIVM have unfortunately neglected this. These interviews sound like you are accepting BS without any pushback / critical questioning. Disappointing. I know you can do better. Drop the Crestone WooWoo and re-engage your H&WS intellect. I have so much respect for your work, that if you continue on this trajectory, it will be another disappointment of our culture’s debasement.
Why not just disagree without the insults? You appear to be triggered by my daring to consider that maybe 40+ people who all saw the same thing actually saw something. I don't know what it was, nor did I claim to. How is that devoid of critical thinking? Why does the question alone make you want to call me names and threaten to withdraw your respect for me? You want me to "drop the woowoo" and just talk about stuff you already agree with, and call that "intellect?" Thanks for your support, but it would cost a lot more than $5 to get me to worry about avoiding topics that might make you feel threatened.
How do you guys feel about these contentious episodes? I understand their importance and I admire Chris for producing them, but I can't escape the feeling that I just wanna hear Chris have a good time with a buddy, old or new. Maybe it's just me, who likes podcasts that offer an element of escapism - I know escapism doesn't "get much done".. but it is nice haha
So cool how respectful you were while at the same time being honest about your opinion of his idol. I so admire people who are able to do this! To not hide their thoughts and at the same time be super respectful and even caring towards the person they are talking to!
Great interview and very eye opening. Chris you make great distinction between criminal and creepy!
The FBI tampering should concern every American citizen and it’s shocking that the mainstream hasn’t covered this. These serious accusations should immediately be looked into!
This conversation reminded me a little of the case of Florence Cassez in Mexico. Cassez, who was born in France, was the girlfriend of the leader of a gang who committed a lot of kidnappings. They were captured and she spent some years in prison, and eventually due to a lot of political pressure she was released because it was shown the arrest had been a media show fabricated to emboldened the popularity of Genaro Garcia Luna, the head of Public Security in Mexico at the time.
The claim was, just as Elliot here is alluding, that "due process" was not properly followed. Which was true.
I’d never heard of Marc or NXIVM (I’m Australian), I found this conversation fascinating. I learned a lot about Tourette’s and I loved your robust who you should defend. Love your work Chris
11 people with moderate to severe Tourettes used the NXIVM process. They all got much better... to the point that their Tourettes wasn't interfering with their lives. There were no controls and the people were unique in that they were willing to try something that they didn't know would help. So, no conclusions can be made except that everyone who chose to participate did well. They all really wanted to improve. It is reasonable to think that there is some unknown percentage of people with Tourettes who would respond well. It would be good to figure out who that population is.
The sense of ambivalence viewers might feel watching the latest season of "The Vow" is perhaps best embodied in Isabella Constantino, a woman who underwent intensive therapy at NXIVM to treat her severe Tourette syndrome years ago. Constantino, whose tics are now gone, nevertheless feels betrayed by her time in NXIVM: “It’s true, I stopped ticcing, but I become broken in other ways.”
And from Marc’s Wiki:
In a response to Bronfman's claims about the Tourette's Syndrome study, prosecutors from the United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York wrote, "the participants in this 'study' have expressed significant distress at their involvement" and offered one victim impact statement from a study participant who said that the study "did nothing for me except ruin my self-esteem, ruin my mental health, and made me hate myself. It did not cure my Tourette’s in any way."
It is sad to see that these two people are having a rough time, maybe even worse than that. It is my understanding that they spoke with some anti-cult "therapists." It is hard to know if their current understanding of their lives is a direct effect of their work with NXIVM, the anti-cult therapists, a combination of the two, or something else. The people who participated and didn't interact with the anti-cult therapists are doing well.
I think there’s merit to the point that we limit the capability of the human mind when it comes to health and disease. Our emotions, childhood experiences, and perspectives really do shape our reality, and culture plays a real role in shaping our perspectives.
Fascinating discussion. I felt the initial insights into Tourette’s and how recovery is possible with a different perspective were the most powerful. Like you Chris I was less convinced of the merit of going all in on Keith’s case.
Yeah man, I wanted to add to your comment...It seemed a little weird how he said the guys first and last name every time he replied to Chris, especially at the end. Chris kept trying to tell him to focus his talents and energy on other situations specifically other people that could really, really use his help. But nope it was...Keith Raniere, Keith Raniere, Keith Raniere, Keith Raniere.
Chris kinda sounds like a gun is being pointed at him in the intro, anyway a thrilling exchange followed and shows how he and the guest feel about the justice system being used as a weapon.
this Steely Dan track has the telltale “wishyness” sound of a poor quality mp3 file. not the end of the world, but worth correcting unless it’s intentional for flying beneath the copyright radar. cool and interesting song, though. love y’all!
Thanks for the heads up. I mix down the audio so the files aren't too big, and since most of it's just talking, that's fine. the music is meant to introduce people to stuff they may not know, so they'll dial it up on their own systems to listen to at higher quality if they dig it. I know the music doesn't sound great, but I don't want to give people 200mb files do deal with, so audio quality is a sacrifice. People should listen to Steely Dan at the highest quality possible, preferably on headphones!
Hey Chris, long time listener and subscriber here (slightly older than you). In the past you have valued critical thinking, encouraging people to consider people’s motivations when considering what they say. Your last interviews about UFOs and NXIVM have unfortunately neglected this. These interviews sound like you are accepting BS without any pushback / critical questioning. Disappointing. I know you can do better. Drop the Crestone WooWoo and re-engage your H&WS intellect. I have so much respect for your work, that if you continue on this trajectory, it will be another disappointment of our culture’s debasement.
Why not just disagree without the insults? You appear to be triggered by my daring to consider that maybe 40+ people who all saw the same thing actually saw something. I don't know what it was, nor did I claim to. How is that devoid of critical thinking? Why does the question alone make you want to call me names and threaten to withdraw your respect for me? You want me to "drop the woowoo" and just talk about stuff you already agree with, and call that "intellect?" Thanks for your support, but it would cost a lot more than $5 to get me to worry about avoiding topics that might make you feel threatened.
this interview was very insightful.
when i first saw a viral video of a person with tourette's, i thought it was fake.
at 14yo this guy was randomly shouting "dick motherfucker!"
it made me go from laughs to empathy. he got 100% cured aswell as he got older
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPHpZ1eqBBk
How do you guys feel about these contentious episodes? I understand their importance and I admire Chris for producing them, but I can't escape the feeling that I just wanna hear Chris have a good time with a buddy, old or new. Maybe it's just me, who likes podcasts that offer an element of escapism - I know escapism doesn't "get much done".. but it is nice haha
So cool how respectful you were while at the same time being honest about your opinion of his idol. I so admire people who are able to do this! To not hide their thoughts and at the same time be super respectful and even caring towards the person they are talking to!
Great interview and very eye opening. Chris you make great distinction between criminal and creepy!
The FBI tampering should concern every American citizen and it’s shocking that the mainstream hasn’t covered this. These serious accusations should immediately be looked into!
This conversation reminded me a little of the case of Florence Cassez in Mexico. Cassez, who was born in France, was the girlfriend of the leader of a gang who committed a lot of kidnappings. They were captured and she spent some years in prison, and eventually due to a lot of political pressure she was released because it was shown the arrest had been a media show fabricated to emboldened the popularity of Genaro Garcia Luna, the head of Public Security in Mexico at the time.
The claim was, just as Elliot here is alluding, that "due process" was not properly followed. Which was true.
But that doesn't mean the bitch wasn't guilty.
I’d never heard of Marc or NXIVM (I’m Australian), I found this conversation fascinating. I learned a lot about Tourette’s and I loved your robust who you should defend. Love your work Chris
People should dig into the success (or lack thereof) in treating Tourette syndrome in others using this method.
11 people with moderate to severe Tourettes used the NXIVM process. They all got much better... to the point that their Tourettes wasn't interfering with their lives. There were no controls and the people were unique in that they were willing to try something that they didn't know would help. So, no conclusions can be made except that everyone who chose to participate did well. They all really wanted to improve. It is reasonable to think that there is some unknown percentage of people with Tourettes who would respond well. It would be good to figure out who that population is.
From here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/overthinking-tv/202211/did-the-nxivm-cult-actually-help-people
The sense of ambivalence viewers might feel watching the latest season of "The Vow" is perhaps best embodied in Isabella Constantino, a woman who underwent intensive therapy at NXIVM to treat her severe Tourette syndrome years ago. Constantino, whose tics are now gone, nevertheless feels betrayed by her time in NXIVM: “It’s true, I stopped ticcing, but I become broken in other ways.”
And from Marc’s Wiki:
In a response to Bronfman's claims about the Tourette's Syndrome study, prosecutors from the United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York wrote, "the participants in this 'study' have expressed significant distress at their involvement" and offered one victim impact statement from a study participant who said that the study "did nothing for me except ruin my self-esteem, ruin my mental health, and made me hate myself. It did not cure my Tourette’s in any way."
It is sad to see that these two people are having a rough time, maybe even worse than that. It is my understanding that they spoke with some anti-cult "therapists." It is hard to know if their current understanding of their lives is a direct effect of their work with NXIVM, the anti-cult therapists, a combination of the two, or something else. The people who participated and didn't interact with the anti-cult therapists are doing well.
So just to be clear, we shouldn’t accept their claims without satisfactory evidence?
I think there’s merit to the point that we limit the capability of the human mind when it comes to health and disease. Our emotions, childhood experiences, and perspectives really do shape our reality, and culture plays a real role in shaping our perspectives.
There’s an incredible feature-length documentary about it. https://www.mytourettesfilm.com/
Pretty big claims to make without any peer review or academic oversight...
Fascinating discussion. I felt the initial insights into Tourette’s and how recovery is possible with a different perspective were the most powerful. Like you Chris I was less convinced of the merit of going all in on Keith’s case.
Yeah man, I wanted to add to your comment...It seemed a little weird how he said the guys first and last name every time he replied to Chris, especially at the end. Chris kept trying to tell him to focus his talents and energy on other situations specifically other people that could really, really use his help. But nope it was...Keith Raniere, Keith Raniere, Keith Raniere, Keith Raniere.
Chris kinda sounds like a gun is being pointed at him in the intro, anyway a thrilling exchange followed and shows how he and the guest feel about the justice system being used as a weapon.