On September 16, 1994, sixty-two students at Ariel School in Zimbabwe witnessed something incredible. In his fantastic documentary, Ariel Phenomenon, Randall Nickerson explores the close encounter these schoolchildren experienced.
Seems to me the story about Amerindians failing to see Cortez's ships (or was it Magellan's? I've heard both) is a myth that's been around for a while. Any actual evidence for it?
[I have no trouble believing that we fail to perceive a lot of stuff available to our senses, because it disturbs our comfortable "reality". But failing to perceive some giant object staring you in the face? Hard to accept.]
Hey Chris, I spend quite some time making (electronic) music, so of course I'm a little triggered about your comments on it. What I love about it is the creation of sounds and vibes and the endless posibilities of creating worlds of sounds. A guitar makes a sound, a synthesizer makes a sound, a piece of computer software makes a sound. Of course, you can strive for 'perfection; perfectly in time, but you can just as well play things in by hand and keep the imperfections. You just work with different sounds than lets say a guitar or drums. The sounds might sound industrial (there can be beauty in that too), they might sound like the sea, like a misty morning, like space, whatever you can think of. I think with AI coming, sound designers and musicians will just get another tool to create these worlds of sound. At the moment there are people really good at creating AI art, because they spend hours on it and mangle it with their own artistic vision. So I think that artistic vision won't go away. Too bad you were introduced by some shitty goa trance ;-) Just know here's amazing stuff out there. It also comes down to taste.
Just on the intro section about auto-tune music, I have recently gone back to some of my old childhood favourites like Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd, and what's amazing is how incredible these are despite - or because of - so many imperfections. They are better than the perfectly produced, zero-error music that prevails now. Modern virtuoso guitarists have made it into an olympic sport of perfection and speed, but it's not interesting, beautiful, or emotional to listen to. It's just 'impressive', 'tight', 'well engineered'. It's like music has become a tech gadget with no feeling. By contrast I was blown away re-listening to those 1970s tracks. Hopefully the move to pure AI is stalled by this fact: that it doesn't feel genuinely good. One hopeful indicator is how much pre-synth music still dominates in movie sound tracks. Maybe all is not lost.
I do think it’s a little silly when you say “jimi Hendrix, bob dylan, and the Beatles” as an example of “real” music. The old people at the time when that music came out would have said the exact same thing as what you are saying now. The Beatles literally made an album Called “Beatles for sale” commenting on how they had become so “industrial and mass produced”. The humanity makes its way into the music in ways you don’t see. You don’t have to like it, I don’t like rave music either, but it is art.
This story sounds so reminiscent of what happened 28 years earlier at Westall High School in Melbourne 1966. There is a doco about it called 'Westall '66: A Suburban UFO Mystery'
I know someone, now in Scotland, who's convinced he was abducted for medical experiments as a child in Melbourne about 1969. He's actually rather traumatized by the experience.
He told me this was one of the very few places where a plaque was erected to mark the 1966 event.
Hi Chris! I’m a longtime admirer of your work. Thank you for being you and doing what you do.
I’m passionate about making music, so your rant about autotune struck a chord (how punny). I’d like to share some thoughts.
We know the ball is rolling towards entirely-AI produced music. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the near future an AI starts its own music production company and reaps bitcoin and becomes the richest “person” in the world. Fans will attend concerts where an AI-generated hologram singer sings about its most recent breakup. I have a hard time distinguishing this from paying $500 to see Taylor Swift perform in a football stadium.
So be it. Mainstream success is rarely deserved anyway. I like Bob Dylan's music. He became famous because his puzzle piece happened to land perfectly in the algorithm of reality - he sang the right words at the right time in the right place around the right people. Yes, he’s talented, but there were probably hundreds of Bob Dylans for whom circumstances weren’t so favorable. Bob Dylan is as much a product of the world around him as he is a producer.
I get the concern about computer-generated art replacing human-generated art, but it won’t. Humans who care about creating art will continue to do so. They probably won’t fill stadiums like Taylor Swift, but they never should have anyway. Music is something we’re all capable of, and any time an artist becomes as globally recognized and ungodly wealthy as Bob Dylan, we’ve already embraced a simulacrum, the idea of a Bob Dylan replacing the person, Bob Dylan. Let AI replace humans in the music business - the fame and money were gross to begin with.
Other than what I perceive to be Rick Beato’s and Billy Corgan’s primary concern, the impact on the industry, what is the problem with AI-generated music? “What makes this song great” is that someone enjoys it. I’m not sure it matters whether it was composed by a person or not. Thoughts anyone?
I loved this conversation and I cant wait to check out Aerial Phenomenon! I hesitate to write this at risk of sounding like a crazy person myself, I wonder if any of you have heard of the Law of One. It was transcribed into a book called The Ra Material. If you are into the UFO topic and the meta-spiritual connotations it has, I would highly recommend at least checking it out. I personally found some of it to deeply resonate with me. Almost like I was remembering some ancient truth. So many of the questions discussed in this podcast that seem to be unanswerable are expounded upon in great detail.
Chris asks the questions- What's the message? Is there even a message? Why give the message to a rural school in Africa? The book's answer (which is given in an Socratatic Q&A style delivery between the advanced civilization thats visiting us, and a woman in the 80s who is channeling these messages) is that these creatures are deliberately maintaining our right to mature as a civilization "naturally" as we polarize as a species. They give us hints of their presence so that we begin to know that we are not alone over time. Disclosure will happen when everyone is ready. At this point we will either fully polarize positively or negatively. We live according to the truth that all is One, there is no separation between us, nature, the planet, or even the universe. Or we deny this truth, and live with the illusion of separation- characterized by hierarchical societies and destructive civilizations. Basically, we will get to a point where we use Nukes, or we mature enough spiritually over time where it would be impossible for us to conceive of doing so. In the future, given enough time, everyone on the planet will all be connected intimately. We will move into a post language world where you could inherently speak Mandarin, and me English and we could still communicate instantaneously through advancements in technology. We will develop a global culture, that move us to new unforeseeable heights together as one. That's how a species advances. As a species advances technologically, we are faced with the catalysts to help us do so spiritually. The beings are on that high spiritual level engaging with us carefully on our current level as you would a wild animal as Randall said. Anyways, I was stone cold sober when I wrote this. : )
Good interview. And I think you hit the nail on the head with regards to your prelude rant about how many things in modern life are being co-opted by algorithms and technology, because IMO that is one of the main messages of the Ariel encounter: a stark warning that we are destroying nature with our obsession with technology --something that incidentally doesn't seem too parsimonious with the assumption that we are dealing with technologically superior extraterrestrial intelligences. Why wouldn't advanced ETs want us to improve our technology like they (supposedly) did?
Unless maybe we are in some kind of galactic zoo and the caretakers don't want the monkeys to pollute their enclosure.
I was also surprised Randall seems to be leaning more to the side of the "nuts and bolts" UFO argument than I had initially assumed. Perhaps you should now talk to someone like Dr. Jeffrey Kripal for a taste of the more 'mystical' side of the UFO speculation.
Hi Chris! The Cheryl Crow song reminded me of the under-appreciated Judee Sill, 60s/70s folk singer. She often alluded to alien visitations, with lines like, "Sweet silver angels over the sea, Please come down flying low for me" in her biggest hit, 'Jesus Was a Crossmaker"
But her most profound creation would have to be' 'The Kiss', linked below. I've been donating to TS for years now and have never cashed in beyond audio content. Would you do us both the favour of listening to this song? Her biography is just as stunning. Thanks for all the love and grit.
I am kind of disappointed, as you said it yourself when talking about Bonobos - cultural explanation is much more parsimonious and interesting. Please use the same logic here, mass hysteria is much more interesting explanation than can be analysed on so many levels. There is so much you can read online, imagine what we could have fond out if you talked in this podcast to someone who knows about it, and imagine where it could have led the conversation…
And sorry about my English, not my first language.
Mass hysteria (of which we've experienced a great deal in the West since 2016) can explain a great deal. But there are simply Too Many arrestingly strange stories out there for me to dismiss this.
I'm a fervent agnostic on extraterrestrial visits. We simply cannot know. So why pretend we do?
I was the very first subscriber to the Crestone Conglomerate on YouTube as far as I can tell. I'd love to see you screw around building a shed or whatever lol.
Gotta give this a listen! Saw two UFO's with my parents in 1966 in rural NH. I was only 7, but will never forget what we saw. I've racked my mind for an explanation all these years.
We went to bed thinking we had seen a UFO. Years later, I found out that students at a nearby college had created a flying disc that floated high in the sky.. This is probably what our group saw.
Seems to me the story about Amerindians failing to see Cortez's ships (or was it Magellan's? I've heard both) is a myth that's been around for a while. Any actual evidence for it?
[I have no trouble believing that we fail to perceive a lot of stuff available to our senses, because it disturbs our comfortable "reality". But failing to perceive some giant object staring you in the face? Hard to accept.]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il26svFhWM8&ab_channel=btro1701
Hey Chris, I spend quite some time making (electronic) music, so of course I'm a little triggered about your comments on it. What I love about it is the creation of sounds and vibes and the endless posibilities of creating worlds of sounds. A guitar makes a sound, a synthesizer makes a sound, a piece of computer software makes a sound. Of course, you can strive for 'perfection; perfectly in time, but you can just as well play things in by hand and keep the imperfections. You just work with different sounds than lets say a guitar or drums. The sounds might sound industrial (there can be beauty in that too), they might sound like the sea, like a misty morning, like space, whatever you can think of. I think with AI coming, sound designers and musicians will just get another tool to create these worlds of sound. At the moment there are people really good at creating AI art, because they spend hours on it and mangle it with their own artistic vision. So I think that artistic vision won't go away. Too bad you were introduced by some shitty goa trance ;-) Just know here's amazing stuff out there. It also comes down to taste.
Just on the intro section about auto-tune music, I have recently gone back to some of my old childhood favourites like Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd, and what's amazing is how incredible these are despite - or because of - so many imperfections. They are better than the perfectly produced, zero-error music that prevails now. Modern virtuoso guitarists have made it into an olympic sport of perfection and speed, but it's not interesting, beautiful, or emotional to listen to. It's just 'impressive', 'tight', 'well engineered'. It's like music has become a tech gadget with no feeling. By contrast I was blown away re-listening to those 1970s tracks. Hopefully the move to pure AI is stalled by this fact: that it doesn't feel genuinely good. One hopeful indicator is how much pre-synth music still dominates in movie sound tracks. Maybe all is not lost.
I do think it’s a little silly when you say “jimi Hendrix, bob dylan, and the Beatles” as an example of “real” music. The old people at the time when that music came out would have said the exact same thing as what you are saying now. The Beatles literally made an album Called “Beatles for sale” commenting on how they had become so “industrial and mass produced”. The humanity makes its way into the music in ways you don’t see. You don’t have to like it, I don’t like rave music either, but it is art.
Yes I remember adults calling the Beatles crap in the mid-60s. Well they *were* crap, for a while.
Then they emerged like a butterfly from a chrysalis. It just took some time.
Dylan was crap to an extent throughout his career. Damned arrogant too.
But computerized music doesn't even rate as crap. It's just a machine product. And hell will freeze over before I listen to machine music.
This story sounds so reminiscent of what happened 28 years earlier at Westall High School in Melbourne 1966. There is a doco about it called 'Westall '66: A Suburban UFO Mystery'
I know someone, now in Scotland, who's convinced he was abducted for medical experiments as a child in Melbourne about 1969. He's actually rather traumatized by the experience.
He told me this was one of the very few places where a plaque was erected to mark the 1966 event.
Someone in the earlier thread said they saw a UFO that same year in NH
Hi Chris! I’m a longtime admirer of your work. Thank you for being you and doing what you do.
I’m passionate about making music, so your rant about autotune struck a chord (how punny). I’d like to share some thoughts.
We know the ball is rolling towards entirely-AI produced music. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the near future an AI starts its own music production company and reaps bitcoin and becomes the richest “person” in the world. Fans will attend concerts where an AI-generated hologram singer sings about its most recent breakup. I have a hard time distinguishing this from paying $500 to see Taylor Swift perform in a football stadium.
So be it. Mainstream success is rarely deserved anyway. I like Bob Dylan's music. He became famous because his puzzle piece happened to land perfectly in the algorithm of reality - he sang the right words at the right time in the right place around the right people. Yes, he’s talented, but there were probably hundreds of Bob Dylans for whom circumstances weren’t so favorable. Bob Dylan is as much a product of the world around him as he is a producer.
I get the concern about computer-generated art replacing human-generated art, but it won’t. Humans who care about creating art will continue to do so. They probably won’t fill stadiums like Taylor Swift, but they never should have anyway. Music is something we’re all capable of, and any time an artist becomes as globally recognized and ungodly wealthy as Bob Dylan, we’ve already embraced a simulacrum, the idea of a Bob Dylan replacing the person, Bob Dylan. Let AI replace humans in the music business - the fame and money were gross to begin with.
Other than what I perceive to be Rick Beato’s and Billy Corgan’s primary concern, the impact on the industry, what is the problem with AI-generated music? “What makes this song great” is that someone enjoys it. I’m not sure it matters whether it was composed by a person or not. Thoughts anyone?
I loved this conversation and I cant wait to check out Aerial Phenomenon! I hesitate to write this at risk of sounding like a crazy person myself, I wonder if any of you have heard of the Law of One. It was transcribed into a book called The Ra Material. If you are into the UFO topic and the meta-spiritual connotations it has, I would highly recommend at least checking it out. I personally found some of it to deeply resonate with me. Almost like I was remembering some ancient truth. So many of the questions discussed in this podcast that seem to be unanswerable are expounded upon in great detail.
Chris asks the questions- What's the message? Is there even a message? Why give the message to a rural school in Africa? The book's answer (which is given in an Socratatic Q&A style delivery between the advanced civilization thats visiting us, and a woman in the 80s who is channeling these messages) is that these creatures are deliberately maintaining our right to mature as a civilization "naturally" as we polarize as a species. They give us hints of their presence so that we begin to know that we are not alone over time. Disclosure will happen when everyone is ready. At this point we will either fully polarize positively or negatively. We live according to the truth that all is One, there is no separation between us, nature, the planet, or even the universe. Or we deny this truth, and live with the illusion of separation- characterized by hierarchical societies and destructive civilizations. Basically, we will get to a point where we use Nukes, or we mature enough spiritually over time where it would be impossible for us to conceive of doing so. In the future, given enough time, everyone on the planet will all be connected intimately. We will move into a post language world where you could inherently speak Mandarin, and me English and we could still communicate instantaneously through advancements in technology. We will develop a global culture, that move us to new unforeseeable heights together as one. That's how a species advances. As a species advances technologically, we are faced with the catalysts to help us do so spiritually. The beings are on that high spiritual level engaging with us carefully on our current level as you would a wild animal as Randall said. Anyways, I was stone cold sober when I wrote this. : )
Hey, just listening to the intro to this. The guy who creates Bushradical was on Alone. I wonder if Callie Russel has any connection to him.
Also, I'd love to eventually drive to Crestone in my van and lend a helping hand.
Aloha all,
Get Randall on the JRE. That'll help pay off his loans.
Good interview. And I think you hit the nail on the head with regards to your prelude rant about how many things in modern life are being co-opted by algorithms and technology, because IMO that is one of the main messages of the Ariel encounter: a stark warning that we are destroying nature with our obsession with technology --something that incidentally doesn't seem too parsimonious with the assumption that we are dealing with technologically superior extraterrestrial intelligences. Why wouldn't advanced ETs want us to improve our technology like they (supposedly) did?
Unless maybe we are in some kind of galactic zoo and the caretakers don't want the monkeys to pollute their enclosure.
I was also surprised Randall seems to be leaning more to the side of the "nuts and bolts" UFO argument than I had initially assumed. Perhaps you should now talk to someone like Dr. Jeffrey Kripal for a taste of the more 'mystical' side of the UFO speculation.
Because YES, there might be angels...
What we think of in reference to Angels today may be a distorted description of some thing communicated to by people throughout history.
Maybe. And yet I still like this quote by Jeffrey Kripal, "UFOlogists see the old gods as ancient aliens. I see the aliens as modern gods."
Hi Chris! The Cheryl Crow song reminded me of the under-appreciated Judee Sill, 60s/70s folk singer. She often alluded to alien visitations, with lines like, "Sweet silver angels over the sea, Please come down flying low for me" in her biggest hit, 'Jesus Was a Crossmaker"
But her most profound creation would have to be' 'The Kiss', linked below. I've been donating to TS for years now and have never cashed in beyond audio content. Would you do us both the favour of listening to this song? Her biography is just as stunning. Thanks for all the love and grit.
xo
https://youtu.be/0feFedDW_iQ
Thanks, Nick. Somewhere between Carol King and Joni Mitchell, I guess. Thanks for the tip (and tips).
I am kind of disappointed, as you said it yourself when talking about Bonobos - cultural explanation is much more parsimonious and interesting. Please use the same logic here, mass hysteria is much more interesting explanation than can be analysed on so many levels. There is so much you can read online, imagine what we could have fond out if you talked in this podcast to someone who knows about it, and imagine where it could have led the conversation…
And sorry about my English, not my first language.
Mass hysteria (of which we've experienced a great deal in the West since 2016) can explain a great deal. But there are simply Too Many arrestingly strange stories out there for me to dismiss this.
I'm a fervent agnostic on extraterrestrial visits. We simply cannot know. So why pretend we do?
Watched this really inspiring video a few days ago about an offgrid house. Might give you some ideas! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM5izEs7KEg
I was the very first subscriber to the Crestone Conglomerate on YouTube as far as I can tell. I'd love to see you screw around building a shed or whatever lol.
Stay tuned! Got my tool belt, so I'm ready to go.
Gotta give this a listen! Saw two UFO's with my parents in 1966 in rural NH. I was only 7, but will never forget what we saw. I've racked my mind for an explanation all these years.
We went to bed thinking we had seen a UFO. Years later, I found out that students at a nearby college had created a flying disc that floated high in the sky.. This is probably what our group saw.