Zappy Zapolin is driven by his belief that psychedelic medicine is the most powerful tool available to quickly raise consciousness and alter humanity’s direction from a destructive path. He has made it his life's mission to increase accessibility to psychedelic compounds through education, media, research, clinical development, and commercial enterprises.
He seemed like a nice guy, but he was not really my cup of tea. I felt like the whole podcast was him selling something – even f I could not quite figure out what it was. He threw out a lot of studies to support his work while also making some unscientific claims. Claims like we remember everything our ancestors did. I appreciate having a conversation about the effects of epigenetics; however, the conversation still needs to be rooted in what we currently know (or conversely, at least admit what we don’t know). I also felt like Zappy was mixing the use of literal and metaphorical language. I did find it intriguing that he has daughters. I would have liked to know what his plans were for exposing his daughters to psychedelics.
Although Zappy makes some good points. There is something here that does not click with me.
I guess as some people pointed out in the comments, it is the lack of harmony in between what he says and how he acts. Like Psychedelics, under my understanding, should be. a tool used voluntarily and in which someone decides freely to do it. In contrast it seems to be something that MUST be done, and if you do not do it, you are a fool.
Too much ego disguised under a supposedly egoless speech + all the mercantilism approach to it.
Said this, I do really agree with many of the points that Zappy makes, tbh, it is just that lack of essence of genuinely which makes me skeptic about it.
Also Chris seemed pretty bored at some points haha
Anya Kaats’s recent conversation with Stephen Jenkinson on her podcast MGSW is a great counterbalance to this one. Esp where they discuss community, psychedelics, privilege. It almost felt like a response to “Zappy”.
wow there are some really intellectual comments in this section. I don't have such a fully thought out response (and my English writing skills are trash) - but I was wondering if anyone else responded to this podcast in a similar way to me - which was a little out of character and left me questioning myself.
I don't want psychedelics to be treated with any exclusivity - so why did this conversation make me feel a little protective, maybe even possessive? I want everyone to experience psychedelics at some point in their life - but through some pharmaceutical scheme? One that started out only for the rich and famous? AND will probably be diluted, worsened (and heavily taxed) once it trickles down the working class? Maybe I'm pessimistic. If this does take off it could be for the best - but I hope lots of people try tripping in their local park with friends before this stuff gets rolled out in prescriptions - I hope that doesn't sound pretentious.. I just don't want business men and pharmaceutical companies to suck the joy out of psychedelics. If only there was a way to get this stuff rolled out to the masses without any company digging their claws in, dictating it and capitalizing off of it.. wishful thinking :)
I'm sure you mentioned on the podcast that there was a way to find other tangentially speaking listeners on the map? I would love to see if there are any listeners in the North East of England :)
Love you Chris! Long time listener here - just finished my art degree and I honestly think this podcast was a bigger influence to me than my four year education! Forever grateful! if you ever fancy checking my work out you can see it all on instagram @sarahevemaxwell_art!
Another very thought provoking conversation. He did seem like he was leaning on the side of "this is for everybody".
I don't have much experience with psychedelics, hardly any in fact, but I am pretty sure that they are definitely not for everybody. Having read work and listened to interviews with researchers into psych medicine, it seems like they can be detrimental in some cases.
I like what you said about psychs and drugs like marijuana in a couple of previous episodes. What they do best is they make you appreciate being sober more and understand "reality" better. Being comfortable and content with not having to take them. I know you mentioned in this episode you have had experiences with people having really bad reactions, perhaps you could talk more
about this in a ROMA episode? It is good though that we are past the stage when messages like "Drugs are bad" were being promoted by the mainstream media and that was all you heard. Discussions like these are I think very helpful in figuring out what these substances are, what effects they can have and how we should approach them.
Tbh I mimic the feelings of others in here. Granted if I liked the guy, I would probably have been a lot less likely to seek out this comment section(for the first time), so we may be a vocal minority. I wanted to come here to see if it wasn't just me.
But speaking of which, I think it would be cool for Chris to plug the Substack episode-comment section more in his intros! Sorry if you do this already Chris, and I just haven't been paying close enough attention, but having a discussion thread for each episode is an awesome thing. It was on my radar to look for such a thing here because I come here as a paying member(humblebrag?!), but it might not occur to others who don't come to SS and just get the pcast in their regular pcast feed, but it'd be awesome to see more activity in these!
I don't really feel like it's something the community has had before, unless there was a similar thing behind the Patreon wall? Is this behind the Substack paywall(behind the "stack"?)? So many questions!! Anyway this seemed appropriately Tangential - thanks for the episode Chris LOVE U
5 years ago I was certain that the legalization of psychedelics was going to be a paradigm changer that would help us veer from our current path of self destruction.
Nowadays I am way less optimistic. And the way this guy speaks confirms my pessimism.
I mean, where's the result in this "increase in empathy" that supposedly occurs when venture capitalists and celebrities take these chemical compounds? Psychedelic advocates convinced us that people on the top of the food chain should be the first ones to try out the benefits of these plant medicines, but the "trickle down" approach has never worked in ANYTHING. Kim Kardashian --who I'm pretty sure has taken psychedelics at least once with someone like Zapolin-- used her private jet so much during this last year, her carbon footprint couldn't be equaled by someone living in India if that person were to live 5000 freaking years. Where's her psychedelic-induced empathy?
No, what I think it;s happening is these assholes are using these drugs to feel less guilty about the sorry state of the planet they are helping to kill. Maybe they should switch to laudanum instead of ketamine.
Not a big fan of this guy tbh. He just hit all the overplayed capatilism making psychedelics the new trendy medical sector points. He sounds like someone who mostly only has an understanding of drug culture among rich ppl/ American pop culture.
I'm a big psychedelic advocate, but also the main stream way it is discussed really bothers me. He definitely has the psychedelics r "special" attitude and presents that psychedelics are different from so called "hard drugs". I will say hes definitely not the worst I've heard in this mindset but def said some pretty unaware stuff.
For example he never really acknowledged that some people just should not do psychedelics, he sort of did but felt very "I'm going to yield a bit but not actually agree with you". If you have conditions like schizophrenia or others that put u at risk for psychosis u just should not take psychedelics and to say "those people would have jumped out a window anyway" is just so rediculously ignorant. Like "oh yeah some people are just screwed in life so who cares".
This man just seems like a business man to me. He probably does genuinely want to help people but he approaches it with the I know better than you guys attitude that so many capitalists disguised as saviors have.
Also hate the whole we need psychedelics to beat the "opiate crisis" or "hard drugs addiction" bs. Like yea it works for some people, and yeah it is good to have a variety of methods available to people, if it worked for you great. That being said the by far simplest and cheapest way to end the overdose spike we've seen from fentanyl and now it's analogues would be to legalize and regulate opiates. The whole idea that psychadelics can end the "opiate" crisis is just so ignorant of the reality of drug use, and again if it works for someone great, but there a much simpler things we know would help and many ppl this doesn't work for.
He really just gives me the feeling I know how to fix you're guys problems my method will work for everyone, and this kind of thinking just has just historically lead to sooo many problems.
He seemed like a nice guy, but he was not really my cup of tea. I felt like the whole podcast was him selling something – even f I could not quite figure out what it was. He threw out a lot of studies to support his work while also making some unscientific claims. Claims like we remember everything our ancestors did. I appreciate having a conversation about the effects of epigenetics; however, the conversation still needs to be rooted in what we currently know (or conversely, at least admit what we don’t know). I also felt like Zappy was mixing the use of literal and metaphorical language. I did find it intriguing that he has daughters. I would have liked to know what his plans were for exposing his daughters to psychedelics.
I listened to this between yesterday and today.
Although Zappy makes some good points. There is something here that does not click with me.
I guess as some people pointed out in the comments, it is the lack of harmony in between what he says and how he acts. Like Psychedelics, under my understanding, should be. a tool used voluntarily and in which someone decides freely to do it. In contrast it seems to be something that MUST be done, and if you do not do it, you are a fool.
Too much ego disguised under a supposedly egoless speech + all the mercantilism approach to it.
Said this, I do really agree with many of the points that Zappy makes, tbh, it is just that lack of essence of genuinely which makes me skeptic about it.
Also Chris seemed pretty bored at some points haha
Anya Kaats’s recent conversation with Stephen Jenkinson on her podcast MGSW is a great counterbalance to this one. Esp where they discuss community, psychedelics, privilege. It almost felt like a response to “Zappy”.
wow there are some really intellectual comments in this section. I don't have such a fully thought out response (and my English writing skills are trash) - but I was wondering if anyone else responded to this podcast in a similar way to me - which was a little out of character and left me questioning myself.
I don't want psychedelics to be treated with any exclusivity - so why did this conversation make me feel a little protective, maybe even possessive? I want everyone to experience psychedelics at some point in their life - but through some pharmaceutical scheme? One that started out only for the rich and famous? AND will probably be diluted, worsened (and heavily taxed) once it trickles down the working class? Maybe I'm pessimistic. If this does take off it could be for the best - but I hope lots of people try tripping in their local park with friends before this stuff gets rolled out in prescriptions - I hope that doesn't sound pretentious.. I just don't want business men and pharmaceutical companies to suck the joy out of psychedelics. If only there was a way to get this stuff rolled out to the masses without any company digging their claws in, dictating it and capitalizing off of it.. wishful thinking :)
I'm sure you mentioned on the podcast that there was a way to find other tangentially speaking listeners on the map? I would love to see if there are any listeners in the North East of England :)
Love you Chris! Long time listener here - just finished my art degree and I honestly think this podcast was a bigger influence to me than my four year education! Forever grateful! if you ever fancy checking my work out you can see it all on instagram @sarahevemaxwell_art!
Another very thought provoking conversation. He did seem like he was leaning on the side of "this is for everybody".
I don't have much experience with psychedelics, hardly any in fact, but I am pretty sure that they are definitely not for everybody. Having read work and listened to interviews with researchers into psych medicine, it seems like they can be detrimental in some cases.
I like what you said about psychs and drugs like marijuana in a couple of previous episodes. What they do best is they make you appreciate being sober more and understand "reality" better. Being comfortable and content with not having to take them. I know you mentioned in this episode you have had experiences with people having really bad reactions, perhaps you could talk more
about this in a ROMA episode? It is good though that we are past the stage when messages like "Drugs are bad" were being promoted by the mainstream media and that was all you heard. Discussions like these are I think very helpful in figuring out what these substances are, what effects they can have and how we should approach them.
Tbh I mimic the feelings of others in here. Granted if I liked the guy, I would probably have been a lot less likely to seek out this comment section(for the first time), so we may be a vocal minority. I wanted to come here to see if it wasn't just me.
But speaking of which, I think it would be cool for Chris to plug the Substack episode-comment section more in his intros! Sorry if you do this already Chris, and I just haven't been paying close enough attention, but having a discussion thread for each episode is an awesome thing. It was on my radar to look for such a thing here because I come here as a paying member(humblebrag?!), but it might not occur to others who don't come to SS and just get the pcast in their regular pcast feed, but it'd be awesome to see more activity in these!
I don't really feel like it's something the community has had before, unless there was a similar thing behind the Patreon wall? Is this behind the Substack paywall(behind the "stack"?)? So many questions!! Anyway this seemed appropriately Tangential - thanks for the episode Chris LOVE U
5 years ago I was certain that the legalization of psychedelics was going to be a paradigm changer that would help us veer from our current path of self destruction.
Nowadays I am way less optimistic. And the way this guy speaks confirms my pessimism.
I mean, where's the result in this "increase in empathy" that supposedly occurs when venture capitalists and celebrities take these chemical compounds? Psychedelic advocates convinced us that people on the top of the food chain should be the first ones to try out the benefits of these plant medicines, but the "trickle down" approach has never worked in ANYTHING. Kim Kardashian --who I'm pretty sure has taken psychedelics at least once with someone like Zapolin-- used her private jet so much during this last year, her carbon footprint couldn't be equaled by someone living in India if that person were to live 5000 freaking years. Where's her psychedelic-induced empathy?
No, what I think it;s happening is these assholes are using these drugs to feel less guilty about the sorry state of the planet they are helping to kill. Maybe they should switch to laudanum instead of ketamine.
Not a big fan of this guy tbh. He just hit all the overplayed capatilism making psychedelics the new trendy medical sector points. He sounds like someone who mostly only has an understanding of drug culture among rich ppl/ American pop culture.
I'm a big psychedelic advocate, but also the main stream way it is discussed really bothers me. He definitely has the psychedelics r "special" attitude and presents that psychedelics are different from so called "hard drugs". I will say hes definitely not the worst I've heard in this mindset but def said some pretty unaware stuff.
For example he never really acknowledged that some people just should not do psychedelics, he sort of did but felt very "I'm going to yield a bit but not actually agree with you". If you have conditions like schizophrenia or others that put u at risk for psychosis u just should not take psychedelics and to say "those people would have jumped out a window anyway" is just so rediculously ignorant. Like "oh yeah some people are just screwed in life so who cares".
This man just seems like a business man to me. He probably does genuinely want to help people but he approaches it with the I know better than you guys attitude that so many capitalists disguised as saviors have.
Also hate the whole we need psychedelics to beat the "opiate crisis" or "hard drugs addiction" bs. Like yea it works for some people, and yeah it is good to have a variety of methods available to people, if it worked for you great. That being said the by far simplest and cheapest way to end the overdose spike we've seen from fentanyl and now it's analogues would be to legalize and regulate opiates. The whole idea that psychadelics can end the "opiate" crisis is just so ignorant of the reality of drug use, and again if it works for someone great, but there a much simpler things we know would help and many ppl this doesn't work for.
He really just gives me the feeling I know how to fix you're guys problems my method will work for everyone, and this kind of thinking just has just historically lead to sooo many problems.