At the top of things I love about having hosted this podcast for so long is the community that’s grown around it. People I meet via the podcast are invariable kind, funny and weird in all the best ways. (Yes, I know that’s a self-selected group, but it works for me!) I’ve been posting monthly open threads here on Substack for a while now, but they’ve normally been only for paying supporters. Last month, I asked whether it would make sense to open the threads to everyone who follows me on Substack or keep it for the smaller group that ponies up every month. The vast majority of responses said, “Let the freeloaders in!”
If you’re not familiar with the concept of an “open thread,” it’s basically just a place for conversation. I get the ball rolling by asking a question or proposing a topic, but you’re free to do whatever you want in the space: raise another issue, ask for advice, recommend writers/films/music, etc. Obviously, we keep it civil and kind — even if we disagree passionately. It’s like a cocktail party with thousands of really wonderful people. I hope you’ll drop by.
This month, I proposed this:
How seriously do you take climate change and what, if anything are you doing to deal with it? Sometimes, I feel like “Fuck it, I’m just gonna have a good time while I can.” Other times, I want to install solar panels and buy a shotgun. Where are you on this issue?
It’s only been a few days, but here are some examples of the kind of thoughtful conversation happening.
Andrew points to a group of Neanderthals that may have something to teach us:
Centered around modern day Germany and Belgium lived a group of Neanderthals that made stone tools in a distinctive style known as the Taubachian. This group is curious because before them a totally different stone style was used in the region. After them, another separate style is found. This Taubachian group happened to only live (as inferred through the artefacts they left behind) during the last interglacial, the Eemian interglacial, which spanned from about 130-115 thousand years ago. This distinct population had a good long run of 15,000 years. The utopia of the Eemian interglacial was all they knew. Their culture was built around it. Then one day things changed and they were gone. Sure we are technologically advanced, but technology is a fickle thing in an unpredictable landscape. Let's hope today's civilized world isn't the modern iteration of the Taubachians. But if we are at least it’s a natural process.
Joaquin writes:
I am really enjoying this thread, I think it forces us consider many connected issues. It sounds like the people contributing to this discussion are all thoughtful and enlightened human beings that have maybe swayed between being hopeful at times and then forced to being defeated realists.
It probably took me until I was about 50 years old to find a balance between being a committed revolutionary and still being a pleasant person to be around. … I’ve realized by observing my family that the right path for me is being an unabashed revolutionary that loves people from all walks of life and will never turn from someone regardless of their political disposition….
I believe that we should not be too hard on ourselves. We should stay focused on the protracted struggle. But most importantly try to show love, tolerance and compassion as much as possible. Be as consistent as possible in that manner. We should be steadfast but humble.
James thinks we need to look at climate change within the context of other manifestations of “human overshoot”:
There is a huge problem with the tendency of the mainstream culture to isolate concern for anthropogenic climate disruption from the other planetary boundaries which humanity has transgressed over recent decades. The planetary boundaries framework pioneered by Johan Rockström has identified nine planetary boundaries which, if overstepped, risks throwing the biosphere into a downward spiral of collapse. Six of these nine boundaries have been overstepped already. And so Earth's biosphere is actually in the equivalent of the emergency room in a hospital. Biodiversity loss, among other variables, are just as dangerous to humans and other creatures as climate is. And it's better that our movements address the whole Big Picture of human overshoot, which is the real problem….
If we were to completely solve the climate problem, in isolation, we'd still be at risk of catastrophic collapse of the biosphere, which sustains all of life. If we want to address the root problem we have to seek to put an end to human overshoot, which isn't just about human population numbers. It's about consumption of energy and materials..., and wastes associated with this. We must consume a lot less of this. Or we will perish along with most other species on Earth.
Rémi sees these issues in terms of the next generations:
I am raising three kids between the ages of one to eight. I'm a millenial. I am often told that not having kids is the greatest way to mitigate my impact on this planet. I see this echoed here. My kids are the reason why I am not eco-anxious but rather eco-angry. They are the reason why I will never say fuck it. I was not ready to sacrifice their existences on an altar of consumerism and comfort assuming that they would have been too weak for this world anyway. I need them to hold me accountable. I wanted to leave this here because I am sick of the fuck it I'll enjoy it while it lasts discourse because most of us are not even enjoying it!
I wanted to leave this here so that there's a bit of diversity in this conversation, to let you know that this community has members like me. Fuck!
This place is beautiful! I will plant trees as an old man until they pry the shovel off my cold dead hands. I've fucked, gave life, sowed, built, planted trees, felled trees, hunted, fished, trapped and loved. I will continue to do so. Get strong people! Connect, go talk to your neighbor. My kids are strong and smart don't worry for them, worry for yourselves and how you will be remembered.
And finally, Donny points to “Let it Fall,” by Billy Strings, which really sums it up. These are just a few of the people at this particular party. Come on in!
“While chunks the size of Delaware are falling off the poles
Our heads are buried in the sand, our leaders dug the holes
Like junkies hooked on fossil fuels heading for withdrawal
How long until there's nothin left at all?”
I take climate change seriously, but like many, I surmise, I have conflicting responses to it. Often I do not think it would be bad, from a “far-sighted” point of view, for it to take its course (and to know that it MUST take its course) whatever might happen to human beings and the “natural” world as it proceeds.
I find this notion can be assuaging to a degree, generally and to my other response (more below), if I am confident that it is leading me to an acceptance, without complacency or it masking a deeper sense of defeat and resignation, of something I would control that is out of my control, an attitude I have long been encouraged to believe, by those who purport to know of such matters, is the foundation of the oldest equanimity.
This state of mind can result in outward conduct that does or does not do anything about climate change in the clinical sense, but presumably, if one is sincere in one’s spiritual submission, whether an antidote to this impending cataclysm is found becomes less important. This, methinks, might be worth striving for, not just in connection with climate change.
On the other hand, I am enraged and sad and disappointed with myself and the human species for failing to alter our conduct to solve this problem (and for creating it in the first place, though one might forgive that) owing to the usual individual and society-wide character flaws that we read about in literature and that are constantly seen in history and politics, not the least of which is vanity, ambition, and the desire for power, but also fear, inertia, habit, lack of imagination, and myopia, which can all seem overwhelming and intractable deficiencies.
I wouldn’t have this response if some part of me did not strongly believe that it is self-evidently bad to let us (and “nature”) and all of what we have achieved be subsumed by millenarian floods, droughts, heat waves, sea level rise, desertification, loss of biodiversity, the melting of Antarctica, and so on, and that standing by is not consonant with the qualitative development of the universe. I think all sentient beings in the “decent” category believe this to one degree or another, not just out of self-interest. At any rate, it motivates me to change - not anywhere near enough, I freely concede to my chagrin - to turn lights and water off in new situations when I am not using them, to reuse, to buy less, to do things myself, to cook more, to bike, to avoid plastic, etc., and to despise those with more who are in more of a position than me to do something on a larger scale but do not.
The two responses are related, of course. Generally speaking, the second is in front and leads, or can lead, to the first. The first can also arise independently, but traditionally does not in the “Can Do” culture of the United States, which has lacked all humility except what has been furnished in a minority of lucky cases by religion. The second can also lead to despair, which should be avoided regardless of whether one acts to prevent further climate change. I am not sure which response is more likely to lead to action, but ultimately I think it is impossible to avoid some psychic conflict in oneself between these two perspectives, which flow into one another. We are perforce all Hamlets in the end.
Well this is a good topic, lots of facets and numerous ways to go with this one. Some of us live in the boonies (aka Saguache County) for a reason. We build differently, we reuse as much as possible, we embrace the land and its beautiful challenges, we hunt, we garden, we save, we plant trees, we care for everything around us and we strive to live and love better. Well not all of us live that way but there’s plenty of us who try to live in better Harmony with this planet. By living in the boonies, instant gratification doesn’t exist. Amazon isn’t here the next morning and shipping anything here is an obstacle, and going to the big box stores are weekend getaways. Going to the city is a strain, traffic is chaotic and consumerism and the never ending March of progress will always be there.